Blasphemy is a Victimless Crime

@fmf said
If only he hadn't typed it and posted it, it would have remained a mere thoughtcrime.

Now you're the thought police.

@secondson said
You should read Kelly's post more carefully because he was speaking metaphorically and it went over your head.

Whether the degree of darkness in a room can be more or less has nothing to do with whether blind people are in that room or not. So the "blind people" is a metaphor for those who believe different things from KellyJay, while there is an actual room which is actually dark to some degree, regardless. It's a failed bit of bumperstickerism.

@secondson said
The blind wouldn't know it if it did.

It depends, if the blindness is due to cataracts then they can tell dark from light, similarly people with macular degeneration. People who have had strokes resulting in occipital lobe damage probably can as well as the visual nerves also have links to the spine. So it depends on the cause and profundity of the visual impairment.

-Removed-

I think they have it as the devil doing the burning.

-Removed-

Looking at verse 9 we have:

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 14:9-11 AKJV

Which, taken literally seems to mean that one actually has to go as far as Satanism to get that treatment. There's also this:

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 the field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 the enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 13:37-42 AKJV

It's saying the tares (a type of weed resembling wheat when young) are the children of the Devil. So once again one needs quite a high level of wantonness to deserve this fate. I don't think that on a literal reading mere atheism cuts it for that treatment.

@deepthought said
Looking at verse 9 we have:[quote]9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in ...[text shortened]... deserve this fate. I don't think that on a literal reading mere atheism cuts it for that treatment.

Let me ask you this, why do you think any sin is a 'mere' anything when the insult is directed at the Sovereign God of the universe? Sins that we could say are horizontal in nature, those being when we sin against another person are not only against the other person, but according to Jesus, what is done to the least of His, He counts it as done to Him. So any crime against someone who belongs to Him is a direct sin against Jesus Christ. Not a wise thing since He is the judge.

Sins that are as we could say, the more vertical in nature would be those that we do, that are sins directly against God. Do you think any of those could be called, 'mere' or would they be along the lines of great abominations against the most Holy One. Dying in one's sins is dying in everything that we have done that we should not have, and the day of reckoning is coming. Justice cannot overlook anything that has harmed another, and all accounts will be settled, all the secret things of man exposed. The Joy of the Lord, and the Wrath of God will be on full display. Personally I think it is wiser to seek God's divine sovereign grace, today we choose, the choice is only offered in this life, so we should not harden our hearts to Him.

Hebrews 4
Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account

@kellyjay said
Let me ask you this, why do you think any sin is a 'mere' anything when the insult is directed at the Sovereign God of the universe? Sins that we could say are horizontal in nature, those being when we sin against another person are not only against the other person, but according to Jesus, what is done to the least of His, He counts it as done to Him. So any crime against s ...[text shortened]... hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account

My point there is that if those passages are to be interpreted absolutely literally then they refer to the Children of the Devil and Satanists. These are the ones to be punished in the presence of the Lamb.

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:30 AKJV

Based on this verse, being excluded from God's presence seems to be the penalty for lesser sinners.

@deepthought said
My point there is that if those passages are to be interpreted absolutely literally then they refer to the Children of the Devil and Satanists. These are the ones to be punished in the presence of the Lamb.

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:30 AKJV

Based on this verse, being excluded from God's presence seems to be the penalty for lesser sinners.

You can go to several places in scriptures, there isn't a better or worse place for sinners. The description may be worse in one place for some over another, but in the end its all the same. Unless they have been saved.

@kellyjay said
You can go to several places in scriptures, there isn't a better or worse place for sinners. The description may be worse in one place for some over another, but in the end its all the same.

But you specifically believe in punishment by torment in burning flames for eternity and you bang on and on and on about it being "The Truth".

What exactly is that "all the same" as?

Are you sure neverending torture by being burned in flames "isn't a better or worse" fate than "being excluded from God's presence"?

Burning v Exclusion.

Be clear. It reflects poorly on you to make sanctimonious assertions about things like this in such a sloppy way.

@kellyjay said
You can go to several places in scriptures, there isn't a better or worse place for sinners. The description may be worse in one place for some over another, but in the end its all the same. Unless they have been saved.

Universalists believe it impossible that a loving God would elect only a portion of mankind to salvation and doom the rest to eternal punishment. They insisted that punishment in the afterlife was for a limited period during which the soul was purified and prepared for eternity in the presence of God.

(Wiki)