Originally posted by robbie carrobieIf you're only looking for technical or scientific comments on bloodless surgery and alternatives to blood transfusion then this thread belongs on the Science Forum. It's been posted here on this Forum though, so the topic is surely the moral and spiritual landscape in which blood transfusions occur and the moral and spiritual imperatives that drive the efforts to advance bloodless surgery.
Bloodless surgery and alternatives to blood transfusion anyone?
Originally posted by galveston75Thank you for your kind words, galveston75. Yes, I think it's good news that bloodless surgery is coming on leaps and bounds. You should post your OP on the science forum too; you might find more people there inclined to discuss it from a technical point of view.
Thank goodness finally a decent and mature comment. You are welcome for the posting. With the inherent dangers of blood transfusions it would seem that anyone would want to know all the "options" available to themselves or their loved ones in case of an emergency with any medical procedure.
As for the discussion here on the Spirituality Forum, I do have a follow up question for you: are Dr Américo Valério's "findings" part of the stance of Jehovahs Witnesses on blood transfusions ~ you know those I mean - you have been shown them more than once ~ and do you share Dr Valério's beliefs about the properties of blood?
Lets ask the consultants. A 66-year old male Jehovah’s Witness patient was brought to the hospital with chest pain, and referred for a cardiac catheterization. He had a positive nuclear stress test that showed reduced blood flow to the left ventricle with a high suspicion for coronary artery disease.
Dr. Jeester : Pump up the volume!
Dr. FMF : Have you checked for millstones around his neck?
Dr. I chumpwood : Is he contagious? quarantine him away from my children.
Dr. Proper Dweeb : Check him for signs of an obscure watchtower article from 1961
Dr. Carrobie : Perhaps we had better ask the patient what he wants to do with his own body.
What actually transpired?
Dr. John Resar, the director of the cardiac catheterization lab at Johns Hopkins performed the procedure. In order to reduce blood loss from the cardiac catheterization, the approach was planned through the radial artery (in the arm) rather than the femoral artery (in the groin). This approach is associated with reduced bleeding during and after the procedure. The total blood loss during the cardiac catheterization procedure was 50 mls (1% of total blood volume). As expected, the procedure revealed high-grade triple vessel disease (narrowing) that was not treatable with coronary stents. Coronary artery bypass surgery was recommended.
Dr. John Conte performed the coronary bypass surgery. Of interest is the fact that in 1999, Dr. Conte published a case report of the first ever successful bloodless lung transplant in a Jehovah’s Witness patient. In this case presented here, he decided the patient would be best served by performing an "off-pump" cardiac surgery where the heart lung bypass machine is not used. This technique reduces the blood loss that is commonly associated with the bypass machine, since with traditional bypass a substantial amount of the patient’s blood is left behind in the circuit of the machine and is unrecoverable.
The 4-hour surgery went very well. The saphenous vein from his right leg was harvested using an endoscopic approach. Compared to the traditional technique, this method uses a smaller incision to harvest the vein. The internal mammary artery and the saphenous vein were both used to provide blood flow to the narrowed coronary arteries. A special “octopus retractor” was used to stabilize the heart because during off-pump surgery the heart continues to beat (thus the term “beating heart surgery), unlike the traditional on-pump method where the heart is arrested and completely still. The hemoglobin level was 13.8 before surgery and 13.0 three days later when the patient was discharged from the hospital. Two weeks after the surgery, the patient attended the open house for our Bloodless Medicine and Surgery Program and looked and felt "as good as ever".
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/bloodless_medicine_surgery/case_studies/cardiac_surgery.html
Coronary bypass surgery and discharged three days later? No blood? Cant touch this.
A 13 year-old previously healthy girl who is one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, with a history of malaria 4 years ago, presented with fever, headache, nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain after a recent trip to Liberia to visit family. During her visit, she was taking prophylactic chloroquine but she missed a few doses. Of note, she was recently admitted to a local hospital a week prior to this admission where she was treated with supportive care and discharged home on a bland diet.
Lets ask the consultants.
Dr. Jeester : Have you checked for signs of wriggling? pump her with blood.
Dr. FMF : Have you checked if its right or wrong that she has these symptoms?
Dr. Carrobie: Perhaps we had better ask what she wants to do with her own body?
What actually transpired?
Upon admission her core temperature was 103°F and she was hypotensive (BP 70/40). Her hemoglobin level was 10.0 g/dL, white blood cell count 3,000, with a platelet count of 22,000. She was given 3 liters of IV normal saline and started on a dopamine infusion to treat hypotension. Her hemoglobin level after hydration was 6.6 g/dL. She was admitted to the pediatric ICU with concern for impending circulatory collapse. The Pediatric service ordered a peripheral blood smear which was concerning for Plasmodia Falciparum (Malaria). The slide was read as 7% parasitemia and the diagnosis of severe malaria was entertained.
After consulting with Pediatric Infectious Disease, treatment was begun with IV quinidine gluconate and Clindamycin. Blood draws were limited to essential lab tests using pediatric phlebotomy tubes to minimize iatrogenic blood loss. Serial ECGs were obtained to monitor for quinidine toxicity. Despite her low hemoglobin, her and her family’s wishes to avoid blood transfusion were honored. By day 4 she was afebrile, and her platelet count was up to 111,000. Given her gastrointestinal symptoms, a stool culture was done to rule out parasitic infections such as Giardia. On day 5 she was discharged on oral quinine 600 mg (10 mg/kg/dose) three times per day, and clindamycin 20 mg/kg/day, both of which were to be continued for 7 days. After ruling out G6PD enzyme deficiency, Primaquine 53 mg, given orally every 24 hours was started and continued for 14 days for eradication of possible Plasmodium ovale hypnozoites. She was also sent home on oral iron supplements, B12, and folate for her anemia. For future travel to Liberia, Infectious Disease recommended that she take prophylactic doxycycline, atovaquone-proguanil, or mefloquine for malaria prophylaxis, but not cholorquine.
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/bloodless_medicine_surgery/case_studies/hematology.html
hypotensive, 7% parasitemia, severe malaria! On day 5 she was discharged. Bloodless surgery and alternatives to blood transfusion. Cant touch it.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou are pretending to misunderstand what issues are being raised with you.
Dr. Jeester : Have you checked for signs of wriggling? pump her with blood.
Dr. FMF : Have you checked if its right or wrong that she has these symptoms?
Dr. Carrobie: Perhaps we had better ask what she wants to do with her own body?
Originally posted by FMFNo i am ignoring all irrelevancies, feel free to discuss bloodless surgery and alternatives to blood transfusion with me anytime. I look forward to your insights on the subject.
You are pretending to misunderstand what issues are being raised with you.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieMoral, spiritual or religious aspects of the topic of blood are off-limits? If it's only science you want to discuss why not do so on the Science Forum?
No i am ignoring all irrelevancies, feel free to discuss bloodless surgery and alternatives to blood transfusion with me anytime. I look forward to your insights on the subject.