Calling out ThinkOfOne

@suzianne said
Nice that you cherry-picked around until you found a translation that says "GOOD DEEDS" or speaks in the "past tense" (as you claim).

The NASB is the only translation which says "good deeds". The CSB and the YLT say "good things", but most translations just say 'good", i.e. "those who have done good".

Let's have the whole paragraph, with the bolding on the words YOU i ...[text shortened]... use I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me[/b]." - John 5:24-30 KJV

You're really grasping at straws. All you've brought thus far is feeble innuendo.

Jesus makes a number of points in John 5:24-30. Since jaywill and others seem to have so much trouble "hear[ing]" certain points, they were emphasized.

If you believe that the surrounding text that make other points materially changes the points of the text I emphasized, then by all means explain exactly how.

If you believe that the inclusion of "deeds" or "things" materially changes the points of the text I emphasized, then by all means explain exactly how.

As to "past tense", look at the Greek.

@kellyjay said
Again depending on whose talking it either is or isn’t important. You seem to be able to select some things that are important and ignore others all from the same sources.

Whose words are you talking about describe why anyone should care!

Again if you don't care what He said, then you don't care what He said. His voice speaks to you or it doesn't.

Evidently in your case, it doesn't.

Feel free to actually address the points I made in my post.

@ThinkOfOne

You neither hear nor understand what Jesus is saying in John 5 because you have been rendered deaf by a gospel preached by those other than Jesus.

Chapter 5 is pretty clear to me. Sorry to disappoint you.

But in saying this, I do not mean anyone's understanding of it is exhaustive as if there is nothing more to discover there, in the light of the Holy Spirit.

But there is NOTHING in John chapter 5 which leaves me perplexed or wondering why it is so different from all I know about Christ's gospel.

However, in your hands, Atheism is the product of your exegesis of John. That cannot be right by ANY stretch of analysis.

So let's see your quotation from it.

John 5
24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

As a crypto Atheist it is obvious the you do not hear or believe in Him who sent the Lord Jesus.

Spiritual death is still your state. Any atheist has not received divine life and has not yet passed from death to life. Your spirit is comatose, deadened. Physically you are alive. Spiritually you are D-E-A-D.

When have you on this Forum confessed that God was your Father ? Since you disown the begetting Divine Father - you are dead. But you COULD be made alive if you turned from your rejection of the Lord Jesus His Son.

As long as it is called "today," there is hope for you, I am pretty sure.

25“Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

I firmly believe that this sentence applies throughout the church age. It is not relegated to the resurrection. John was careful to record "The hour is coming AND NOW IS"

Where I am it is right now 3:57 PM EST. Right now one could hear the voice of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, believe, and receive the divine life from the Father.

The hour NOW IS when you could hear the voice of Jesus and live. You should pray -

"Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus. I need to hear Your voice. Have mercy on me O Lord. Lord allow me to HEAR Your voice. Thankyou Lord Jesus."


Today, a man may "hear the voice" of Jesus and be regenerated and receive divine life.

The next prediction in verses 28 is about resurrection from graves and tombs per se.

28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming,

Notice that this time He does not say "and now is". This is purely in the future - "for an hour is coming".

in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

This is certainly a part of the Gospel I preach and that the entire New Testament teaches.

I realize that as a Humanist teaching Atheism and human good works, these expressions would be favored by you.

"Aha see? Good deeds verses Bad deeds."

I fully realize that an atheistic moral humanist would champion words from Jesus which SEEM to him to eliminate any necessity for either God's existence of Christ's redemptive death and resurrection.

It is entirely predictable that you would grasp at these verses to prove receiving Christ as a living Person for salvation is not necessary.

I'll come back to this. It deserves more space.

(5:24) Those who HEAR His word "has passed out of death into life". Once again Jesus uses the past tense.

How can ANYONE who is an Atheist claim that he has HEARD the voice of Jesus and believed and trusted His words?

This is impossible. NO ONE who is an Atheist rejecting the existence of God, either covertly or overtly can say he has received into his heart the heard voice of Jesus.

Such a one is determined NOT to hear Jesus.

ToO cont.

(5:29) Those who those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life.

Those who HEAR his word do the GOOD DEEDS and go forth to a resurrection of life.
Those who do not HEAR his word do the EVIL DEEDS and go forth to a resurrection of judgement.

This is NOT the gospel in which you believe. This is the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth.

I understand exactly what you are trying to say. But you're wrong.

The good is to become a follower of the Son of God.
The evil is to not become a follower of the Son of God.

The two resurrections are the resurrection before the millennial kingdom of the believers and the resurrection of all the rest unto judgment after the millennial kingdom.

"The rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection." (Rev. 20:5)

Though John 5:29 seems to speak of an event at the same moment, the two resurrections are separated by one thousand years.

Footnotes 29(1) and (3) in the Recovery version explain it very well.

" ... those who have done the good to the resurrection of life"

This is the resurrection of the saved believers before the Millennium (Rev. 20:4,6; 1 Cor. 15:23,52; 1 Thess. 4:16). The dead believers will be resurrected to enjoy eternal life at the coming back of the Lord Jesus. Hence, it is called " the resurrection of life."

" ... and those who have done the evil to the resurrection of judgment."

This is the resurrection of the perished unbelievers after the Millennium (Rev. 20:5, 12) . All the dead unbelievers will be resurrected after the thousand years to be judged at the great white throne (Rev. 20:11-15). Hence, it is called "the resurrection of judgment".

Where do you fit in to this ? As of right now your destiny as a Christ rejecting Atheist is to take place in "the resurrection of judgment" for the evil of rejecting Jesus Christ and His Father.

But there is hope that you could turn and be saved, perhaps if we pray - for sure if the Father has mercy on you.

@thinkofone said
Again if you don't care what He said, then you don't care what He said. His voice speaks to you or it doesn't.

Evidently in your case, it doesn't.

Feel free to actually address the points I made in my post.

I am addressing those points by asking you to say by what authority are those words important! If the guy you are quoting is just like everyone else than His Words are no different than anyone else. Tell us about the Jesus you are quoting, who is this Jesus you quote?

@thinkofone said

Jesus makes a number of points in John 5:24-30. Since jaywill and others seem to have so much trouble "hear[ing]" certain points, they were emphasized.

And what you have trouble hearing is that Jesus is the Son of the Living God, whom you do not believe in.

So pardon us if we treat the rest of what you say about Jesus as only dust. You clearly do not know him if you deny who he is.

@suzianne said
And what you have trouble hearing is that Jesus is the Son of the Living God, whom you do not believe in.

So pardon us if we treat the rest of what you say about Jesus as only dust. You clearly do not know him if you deny who he is.

What I have "trouble hearing" is the gospel preached by those other than Jesus in which you believe.

Like the rest of my post said:

You're really grasping at straws. All you've brought thus far is feeble innuendo.

If you believe that the surrounding text that make other points materially changes the points of the text I emphasized, then by all means explain exactly how.

If you believe that the inclusion of "deeds" or "things" materially changes the points of the text I emphasized, then by all means explain exactly how.

As to "past tense", look at the Greek.

Feel free to address those points at any time.

This is the way it goes with you and other Christians on this forum when you are unable to refute what I've posted. You resort to feeble innuendo and other forms of ad hominem attack - like you've done in both of your posts here.

The following still stands:

There is the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth.

There is a gospel preached by those other than Jesus.

You believe in a gospel preached by those other than Jesus.

John 5
24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
25“Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

(5:24) Those who HEAR His word "has passed out of death into life". Once again Jesus uses the past tense.
(5:29) Those who those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life.

Those who HEAR his word do the GOOD DEEDS and go forth to a resurrection of life.
Those who do not HEAR his word do the EVIL DEEDS and go forth to a resurrection of judgement.

This is NOT the gospel in which you believe. This is the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth.

You neither hear nor understand what Jesus is saying in the gospel He preached while He walked the Earth because you have been rendered deaf by a gospel preached by those other than Jesus.

@thinkofone said
What I have "trouble hearing" is the gospel preached by those other than Jesus in which you believe.

Like the rest of my post said:
[quote]You're really grasping at straws. All you've brought thus far is feeble innuendo.

If you believe that the surrounding text that make other points materially changes the points of the text I emphasized, then by all means explain ...[text shortened]... walked the Earth because you have been rendered deaf by a gospel preached by those other than Jesus.

So tell us why it is important that we concern ourselves with Jesus’ gospel as he walked the earth. What makes that more important than what someone else if as you claim they are different? Make your case please!

@ThinkOfOne

You neither hear nor understand what Jesus is saying in the gospel He preached while He walked the Earth because you have been rendered deaf by a gospel preached by those other than Jesus.

Does the importance of Jesus words "while He walked the Earth" also include His words while He walked on water? I count the water of the Earth to be part of the Earth.

I need to know if what He did and said while walking on water is important to your gospel teaching.

A Yes or a No will do for starters.

@sonship said
@ThinkOfOne

You neither hear nor understand what Jesus is saying in the gospel He preached while He walked the Earth because you have been rendered deaf by a gospel preached by those other than Jesus.

Does the importance of Jesus words "while He walked the Earth" also include His words while He walked on water? I count the water of the Eart ...[text shortened]... while walking on water is important to your gospel teaching.

A Yes or a No will do for starters.

ToO likes to strip out all the 'miraculous stuff' from the Gospels while simultaneously accepting as genuine all the non-miraculous stuff. (For no other reason it seems than it suiting his purpose).

@sonship said
@ThinkOfOne

You neither hear nor understand what Jesus is saying in the gospel He preached while He walked the Earth because you have been rendered deaf by a gospel preached by those other than Jesus.

Does the importance of Jesus words "while He walked the Earth" also include His words while He walked on water? I count the water of the Eart ...[text shortened]... while walking on water is important to your gospel teaching.

A Yes or a No will do for starters.

Do you accept all the words Jesus said?

@kellyjay said
So tell us why it is important that we concern ourselves with Jesus’ gospel as he walked the earth. What makes that more important than what someone else if as you claim they are different? Make your case please!

If you don't care what Jesus said, then you don't care what He said. His voice speaks to you or it doesn't.

Feel free to actually address the points I've made in my posts.

@KellyJay

Do you accept all the words Jesus said?

KellyJay, my corrector!

I'm working on it bro. I'm working on it.

@sonship said
@KellyJay

Do you accept all the words Jesus said?

KellyJay, my corrector!

I'm working on it bro. I'm working on it.

😉

@thinkofone said
If you don't care what Jesus said, then you don't care what He said. His voice speaks to you or it doesn't.

Feel free to actually address the points I've made in my posts.

Repeating yourself only shows you have nothing to offer.