Can fallen angel be forgiven?

Originally posted by checkbaiter

Jesus Christ himself is saying that all authority is given to him. I personally would not put any trust in what is reportedly said by the Devil.

Yes, but that authority is not yet, it is in abeyance . Not until he returns...
Who is causing Hurricanes, tornadoes,? Who is here to kill steal and destroy? Let's see, if I turn on the news ...[text shortened]... thought he could put one over on Jesus...never mind Raj, this is not worth pursuing any further.

You must remember that the quote you gave for Satan was before Jesus began His ministry and Satan always speaks in half truths, which is the best way to get us to believe a lie. Jesus made His statement after His resurrection and always speaks the full truth and nothing but the truth.

Hurricanes and tornadoes are necessary natural weather occurrences. Hurricanes and tornadoes help maintain the heat balance on earth by the transfer of heat energy to colder areas and provide a saftey means for the release of excess enegy. Hurricanes and tornadoes also provide torrents of fresh water for vegetation and quickly replenish ground water supplies.

What makes you think Satan has the power to cause hurricanes and tornadoes, when it was Jesus who calmed the winds of a storm even before He was given all power in heaven and on earth?

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
You must remember that the quote you gave for Satan was before Jesus began His ministry and Satan always speaks in half truths, which is the best way to get us to believe a lie. Jesus made His statement after His resurrection and always speaks the full truth and nothing but the truth.

Hurricanes and tornadoes are necessary natural weather occurrences. Hu ...[text shortened]... he winds of a storm even before He was given all power in heaven and on earth?

The Instructor

RJ, When you look around at the world as a whole, when you turn on the evening news, which one do you see as having more control over the world? Jesus?
Do world events reflect Jesus? or Satan?

1 John 5:19-20
9 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.
NIV


Who does the bible call the god of this world?...

2 Cor 4:4

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
KJV

Originally posted by RJHinds
You must remember that the quote you gave for Satan was before Jesus began His ministry and Satan always speaks in half truths, which is the best way to get us to believe a lie. Jesus made His statement after His resurrection and always speaks the full truth and nothing but the truth.

Hurricanes and tornadoes are necessary natural weather occurrences. Hu ...[text shortened]... he winds of a storm even before He was given all power in heaven and on earth?

The Instructor

Food for thought.......

“The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” (1 John 5:19) Who is “the wicked one”? The Bible identifies him as Satan. (Matthew 13:19; Mark 4:15) Is that far-fetched? Think of this: If Satan has power over the world, then he influences humans to be as selfish, greedy, and shortsighted as he is. Would that not help to explain why man so badly mismanages his own environment on the earth? Many experts warn that mismanagement of the environment may play a role in natural disasters, whether by causing them, worsening them, or making human society more vulnerable to them.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
RJ, When you look around at the world as a whole, when you turn on the evening news, which one do you see as having more control over the world? Jesus?
Do world events reflect Jesus? or Satan?

[b]1 John 5:19-20
9 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.
NIV


Who does the bible ca ...[text shortened]... ht of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
KJV
[/b][/b]

When you turn on the evening news, you hear the worst of what's happening because that's what's more interesting to watch.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
When you turn on the evening news, you hear the worst of what's happening because that's what's more interesting to watch.

That is true of human nature, I agree. It is also in movies, the violence, greed, murder, etc. If you really think about it, it is in man to be selfish, it is the way we have all been raised, influenced, the me first mentality.

But it is Jesus, who has delivered some of us(those that believe in him) , and shows us how to overcome, how to renew our minds and how to get out of this rut.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
RJ, When you look around at the world as a whole, when you turn on the evening news, which one do you see as having more control over the world? Jesus?
Do world events reflect Jesus? or Satan?

[b]1 John 5:19-20
9 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.
NIV


Who does the bible ca ...[text shortened]... ht of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
KJV
[/b][/b]

Don't you believe that we Christians represent the body of Christ on this earth as the apostle Paul states? Jesus did not request that we be taken out of the world, did He? Satan does not control us, does He? We are the members of Christ's church on earth and He said that Satan would not prevail over His church, did He not? So if what I just wrote is true, why would you give control over to Satan without a fight?

The actions of people reflect both the influence of Satan and Jesus. I believe the influence of Jesus will win.

The Instructor

Originally posted by galveston75
Food for thought.......

“The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” (1 John 5:19)...

The KJV says:

1Jn 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

Which translation did you use? 'Satan' and 'wickedness' are derived from different Greek words. They are not synonymous.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
RJ, When you look around at the world as a whole, when you turn on the evening news, which one do you see as having more control over the world? Jesus?
Do world events reflect Jesus? or Satan?

[b]1 John 5:19-20
9 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.
NIV


Who does the bible ca ...[text shortened]... ht of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
KJV
[/b][/b]

The world in the last 50 to 100 years has experienced far more good than evil. IF as you say Satan is in control then Satan is doing a very good job.

The average middleclass citizen in developed country lives a far better lifestyle than royalty of 100 years ago.

The fact is that God is in control and He is allowing Satan to enjoy his time on earth. According to Revelation Satan will be bound and would no longer be able to do wahtever he does.

Originally posted by checkbaiter

Jesus Christ himself is saying that all authority is given to him. I personally would not put any trust in what is reportedly said by the Devil.

Yes, but that authority is not yet, it is in abeyance . Not until he returns...
Who is causing Hurricanes, tornadoes,? Who is here to kill steal and destroy? Let's see, if I turn on the news ...[text shortened]... thought he could put one over on Jesus...never mind Raj, this is not worth pursuing any further.

The fact that Christ did not respond to Satan's lie about him having all authority etc does not give you licence to fabricate a response.

I keep quoting you the Bible and you keep giving me opinions and heresay. The truth about all of this if you care to listen is that

GOD IS IN CONTROL.. and Satan is permitted for the time being to run riot on some of the people.

The fact that so much good is taking place in the world disproves your point. In fact here is another verse...

I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it. (Isaiah 45:5-8 KJV)

Do you get it? GOD CREATES EVIL.

Again God is in control but Satan is allowed to act under the watchful eye of God. It is much like the Job story. God allowed Satan certain leeway over Job.

To claim that Satan is in control of the world is just plain foolishness.

Originally posted by Rajk999
The world in the last 50 to 100 years has experienced far more good than evil. IF as you say Satan is in control then Satan is doing a very good job.

The average middleclass citizen in developed country lives a far better lifestyle than royalty of 100 years ago.

The fact is that God is in control and He is allowing Satan to enjoy his time on earth. According to Revelation Satan will be bound and would no longer be able to do wahtever he does.

I agree with all of this, I did not say God does not intervene...

Originally posted by Rajk999
The fact that Christ did not respond to Satan's lie about him having all authority etc does not give you licence to fabricate a response.

I keep quoting you the Bible and you keep giving me opinions and heresay. The truth about all of this if you care to listen is that

GOD IS IN CONTROL.. and Satan is permitted for the time being to run riot on some o ...[text shortened]... in leeway over Job.

To claim that Satan is in control of the world is just plain foolishness.

This is really funny, but I will have to respond later...

Originally posted by checkbaiter
This is really funny, but I will have to respond later...

The only important thing I said is that Isaiah said 'God said He created evil'.
Is that funny? I would be interested in hearing you refute Isaiah. You claim that Satan created evil.

Generally people prefer clear quotes from the Bible rather than opinions and conclusions. So Im waiting for your quotes .. not your opinions.

Originally posted by Rajk999
The fact that Christ did not respond to Satan's lie about him having all authority etc does not give you licence to fabricate a response.

I keep quoting you the Bible and you keep giving me opinions and heresay. The truth about all of this if you care to listen is that

GOD IS IN CONTROL.. and Satan is permitted for the time being to run riot on some o ...[text shortened]... in leeway over Job.

To claim that Satan is in control of the world is just plain foolishness.

Where do I start? You pick and choose what verses you like but ignore others that you don't like.
First you quote Isaiah 45:5-8, "God creates darkness and evil." This is absurd!

I suggest that you learn a little more about figures of speech in the bible.

There is a figure used in the bible called "Metonymy" Reveal Hidden Content

Look here for a more thorough explanation...
http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=703

You ignore verses like..1 John 1:5-6
This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
NKJV

Is evil darkness? Or is it good in your world? Which is it? Does God create evil, but then claims that he is light and in him is no darkness at all?

Ps 5:4
For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness,
Nor shall evil dwell with You.
NKJV


How can God create evil and then condemn it? The Atheist will have a field day here, and I would not blame them one bit.

If Checkbaitor and Rajk were sitting having a meal in a restaurant, and Bob walks up behind Rajk with a lead pipe in full view of Checkbaitor, but did not warn Rajk, who would Rajk blame? When Rajk woke up, who would he blame?
Certainly Bob, but wouldn't he blame Checkbaitor just as much for just "allowing it"?
This is what you claim, that God is in control and has Satan on a leash.

You need to learn to reconcile verses of scripture that contradict each other. Otherwise all you have is religion.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Don't you believe that we Christians represent the body of Christ on this earth as the apostle Paul states? Jesus did not request that we be taken out of the world, did He? Satan does not control us, does He? We are the members of Christ's church on earth and He said that Satan would not prevail over His church, did He not? So if what I just wrote is tru ...[text shortened]... the influence of Satan and Jesus. I believe the influence of Jesus will win.

The Instructor

Don't you believe that we Christians represent the body of Christ on this earth as the apostle Paul states?

Yes!

Jesus did not request that we be taken out of the world, did He? Satan does not control us, does He?

Agreed..Satan has no authority over a believer, only what the believer allows, due to sin, etc. In other words Satan has no legal right over me, but if I choose to live a sinful life, I am agreeing with Satan and not God. He can then wreck havoc in my life.

We are the members of Christ's church on earth and He said that Satan would not prevail over His church, did He not?

Satan will not prevail over the church, unless we fall prey to his deceit, which comes primarily through religion and wrong teaching. But ultimately the church will prevail, of course.

So if what I just wrote is true, why would you give control over to Satan without a fight?

Who said I would not? I would never give Satan control over my life, we are talking about the world here, not Christians walking in the power of God.

bump for Rajk999