Catholic Social Teaching

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Please elaborate on that last sentence. I don't grok the difference.

Do you mean that education refers to how schools are organized, while teaching refers to how the teacher imparts information to the student, sort of how strategy and tactics are different but related?

No; social teaching is the body of teaching specifically about how societies should be configured, whether governments should intervene against poverty, on what conditions should nations engage in war, the relationship between church and state. It goes on. It is a mixture of theology and economics, closely aligned with liberation theology but with many antecedents from Rerum Novarum.

Originally posted by Conrau K
No; social teaching is the body of teaching specifically about how societies should be configured, whether governments should intervene against poverty, on what conditions should nations engage in war, the relationship between church and state. It goes on. It is a mixture of theology and economics, closely aligned with liberation theology but with many antecedents from Rerum Novarum.

Wow. So it's a "teaching" in that it's teaching ME. I thought "teaching" referred to myself teaching my students.

Now THIS is a good post. Too bad I didn't get it before I wrote my Statement of Intent.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Wow. So it's a "teaching" in that it's teaching ME. I thought "teaching" referred to myself teaching my students.

Now THIS is a good post. Too bad I didn't get it before I wrote my Statement of Intent.

You already had it -- "opposing The Man who's Keeping The People Down via The System." It's marxism-lite as religious doctrine.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
There's a distinction to be made between "having sinned" and "continuing to sin". I believe that Jesus was saying that there is forgiveness for "having sinned". But Jesus also clearly states that one must overcome sin to gain salvation/eternal life/heaven or however you want to put it. I discount verses that contradict Jesus, because I believe that Jesus ...[text shortened]... that there'd be a noticable difference if people were actually following Jesus.

There's a distinction to be made between "having sinned" and "continuing to sin". I believe that Jesus was saying that there is forgiveness for "having sinned".-------ToO----------------


How is this not an extrapolation? Where does Jesus specifically say this? Why should any sin be more forgivable for any other? Why should such a distinction be made?

Your idea that you have the "truth" and everyone else is "extrapolating" (except you) looks pretty thin when you say stuff like this.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
There's a distinction to be made between "having sinned" and "continuing to sin". I believe that Jesus was saying that there is forgiveness for "having sinned". But Jesus also clearly states that one must overcome sin to gain salvation/eternal life/heaven or however you want to put it. I discount verses that contradict Jesus, because I believe that Jesus that there'd be a noticable difference if people were actually following Jesus.

What I also find disturbing is that it's been my experience that "Christians" are no more moral than the general population. You'd think that there'd be a noticable difference if people were actually following Jesus.-----------ToO---------------

So what's your agenda here then? Are you out to attack the "FALSE" church of Jesus or draw our attention to where the "real" followers of Jesus are? Do you know where Jesus's church is? Whatr happened to it? Are you starting a new one?

If you are really a follower of Jesus you would be showing us the way instead of pointing out the failings of the church. All you seem to do is knock rather than build up. This suggests to me that your agenda is to use the words of Jesus to criticise others rather than further any movement yourself. Who do YOU meet with ? Have you found any other followers of Jesus that can live up to this standard as you do? Are you the only TRUE christian out there? What good news do you have for us?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
There's a distinction to be made between "having sinned" and "continuing to sin". I believe that Jesus was saying that there is forgiveness for "having sinned". But Jesus also clearly states that one must overcome sin to gain salvation/eternal life/heaven or however you want to put it. I discount verses that contradict Jesus, because I believe that Jesus that there'd be a noticable difference if people were actually following Jesus.

I discount verses that contradict Jesus, because I believe that Jesus had it right. I believe that Jesus was really consistent within His own words. -------------ToO------------

.....Yes , but the problem is that whenever I have tried to get you to explore Jesus's words in other areas that might throw a different slant on things you don't go there. I can only conclude the following...

1) You have a preconcieved extrapolated personal view of Jesus but don't own it for yourself as your extrapolation (everyone else is extrapolating)

2) You focus intensly on verses that seem to support your position and downplay or ignore Jesus's words in other areas

3) You cannot reconcile Jesus's words over the whole range of the NT with your own view because your view involves a polarised simplistic philosophy.

4) You have no alternative interpretations or ideas about what Jesus said or did in other parts of the NT (eg -the fact he did not ask Peter to depart from him , or the last supper)

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
There's a distinction to be made between "having sinned" and "continuing to sin". I believe that Jesus was saying that there is forgiveness for "having sinned". But Jesus also clearly states that one must overcome sin to gain salvation/eternal life/heaven or however you want to put it. I discount verses that contradict Jesus, because I believe that Jesus that there'd be a noticable difference if people were actually following Jesus.

The problems seem to occur with those who have extrapolated on what Jesus taught. ------ToO---------------


But when I look at Jesus's words for guidance on how to make sense of his teachings I see him say " when he the Comforter comes he will guide you into all truth" . Here Jesus clearly and explicitly lays out the way his words are to be made sense of (via the spirit) and the truth is yet to be completed. He even says later that the comforter "will remind you of everything I have said".

This strongly suggests that there is a whole process of understanding (or extrapolation in your view) that is to take place after Jesus's death via the Holy Spirit. Jesus also clearly talks about greater understanding occuring afyter his death "on that day you will know that I am in you and you are in me".

Guess what happens ? Pentecost , St Paul's teachings etc , just as Jesus said.

So , I'm stuck. Do I go with your way of making sense of Jesus? Do I listen to your words or trust in the spirit to reveal the truth? Do I look to Jesus's explicit words on how the truth is to be revealed? Hmmmmm........tri8cky one............you say we are to take Jesus's explicit and clear teachings seriously , so maybe that's what we should do.

Help me ToO , you tell me to take his clear teachings seriously , I don't know what to do . Should I ask the Holy Spirit to guide me into all truth or ignore Jesus? I'm stuck.

Originally posted by knightmeister
The problems seem to occur with those who have extrapolated on what Jesus taught. ------ToO---------------


But when I look at Jesus's words for guidance on how to make sense of his teachings I see him say " when he the Comforter comes he will guide you into all truth" . Here Jesus clearly and explicitly lays out the way his words are to be made se ...[text shortened]... ould I ask the Holy Spirit to guide me into all truth or ignore Jesus? I'm stuck.

And so continues the stream of lies, half-truths and distortions. Evidently its the only way to continue to prop up a Jesus created in your own image.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung

The Jesuit teaching tradition is such an obvious example of what she villianized in her writings that I can't imagine anyone who's both read her books and looked into "Catholic Social Teaching" can have possibly missed it.[/b]

Well, I've done the former but not the latter. My knowledge of ANYthing Catholic would fit into a thimble. This is upstate SC where I live--we only have one Catholic church in the city and I've only met one bonafide Catholic in my life. Maybe they keep a low profile; maybe they don't like the sun--I just don't know.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
And so continues the stream of lies, half-truths and distortions. Evidently its the only way to continue to prop up a Jesus created in your own image.

Sorry , that doesn't help . I'm even more confused now. Jesus is explicitly telling me that I should allow myself to be "guided into all truth " by the comforter (Holy Spirit) ......so what should I do?

Have I missunderstood him? Was that not what he meant? If so then why did he clearly say it?

He clearly and explicitly says that there is a big role for the Holy Spirit in truth guidance and that this truth is something to do with Jesus "being in us " and we "are in him" .

I've looked around the NT for some clear word from Jesus as to how we are supposed to make sense of his words , and this is the only thing I've found. So I can only go with it. It seems to be the only place where Jesus actually offers any instruction as to how we should make sense of his words.

So let me get this straight . When Jesus says something clearly and explicitly we are to take him seriously ......but...er..only sometimes?

I can only assume you are being selective about what he says . It's not clear at all what you are saying because all you do is say I'm lying or something when actually I need you help. How am I supposed to take these words....."when he the Comforter comes he will GUIDE you into ALL TRUTH" . Heeeellllllpppp!

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
And so continues the stream of lies, half-truths and distortions. Evidently its the only way to continue to prop up a Jesus created in your own image.

And so continues the stream of lies, half-truths and distortions. Evidently its the only way to continue to prop up a Jesus created in your own image--------------ToO---------------

Actually , the Jesus I believe in is nothing like me . He's far more compassionate and patient than I am , but hey , I'm getting there.

I actually think you are accusing me of the very thing you are doing, which is so ironic, because it is your Jesus is perfectionist , judgemental , simplistic and rigid with little time for the human aspect of things. Remind you of anyone?


(BTW- I've started to realise when I'm hitting the mark and making some good points - you always come out with this "distortions" garbage when I have really shone a light on what it is you are doing - I almost expect it)

Originally posted by knightmeister
And so continues the stream of lies, half-truths and distortions. Evidently its the only way to continue to prop up a Jesus created in your own image--------------ToO---------------

Actually , the Jesus I believe in is nothing like me . He's far more compassionate and patient than I am , but hey , I'm getting there.

I actually think you are accu ...[text shortened]... garbage when I have really shone a light on what it is you are doing - I almost expect it)

You might want to keep in mind that the words of Jesus support my position and not yours. All you can say is what "appeals" to you.

I bring up your ongoing stream of lies, half-truths and distortions in response to posts that warrant it. There's no point in discussing your 'points' because they are as inane as your contention that God is both omniscient and not omniscient and you've shown that there's little point on shining the light of truth your way. There's little room for truth in KM's world.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
You might want to keep in mind that the words of Jesus support my position and not yours. All you can say is what "appeals" to you.

I bring up your ongoing stream of lies, half-truths and distortions in response to posts that warrant it. There's no point in discussing your 'points' because they are as inane as your contention that God is both omniscien nt on shining the light of truth your way. There's little room for truth in KM's world.

There's little room for consistency in ToO's world. You pick and choose which of Jesus' clear and explicit words you are going to take seriously in order to further your fake jesus.

I have exposed this inconsistency many times and you always deflect and run away from it. You tell others to take Jesus' clear words seriously but when the same argument is used in reverse against your position you cry foul. Why won't you take jesus seriously when he explicitly says

" when he the Comforter comes he will guide you into all truth" ?

If you won't listen to jesus' words but keep waffling on about how others should listen to his words , then that makes you a hypocrite , plain and simple.

And you know that's what makes me puke If there's one thing that jesus was explicit and clear about it was his hatred of hypocrisy and here you are , expecting others to sit up and take notice of jesus' clear teachings (which I don't deny need to be heard and thought about) whilst at the same time you refuse to listen to his words yourself or even explore them in an adult manner (instead resorting to your distortions mantra)

What do you think he would have said to you?

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Well, I've done the former but not the latter. My knowledge of ANYthing Catholic would fit into a thimble. This is upstate SC where I live--we only have one Catholic church in the city and I've only met one bonafide Catholic in my life. Maybe they keep a low profile; maybe they don't like the sun--I just don't know.

Check this out and see if you see any similarity to what "the looters" in Rand's books talk about and write.

http://www.lmu.edu/Asset8869.aspx?method=1

EDIT - Some tidbits from the above address.

Believing that knowledge is socially constructed, courses in the School of Education have...

We recognize that differential achievement among students is a
serious concern for educators. There are various factors affecting school achievement, including social, cultural, and school-related influences.

Thinking and learning are social processes, not merely individual processes

We recognize the need to create a culturally responsive pedagogy that promotes equitable
learning for all students and closes the differential achievement gap. The critical components of
such a pedagogy are centered on the notions that educators create learning environments in
which all: “(a) students must experience academic success; (b) students must develop and
experience cultural competence; and (c) students must develop a critical consciousness through
which they challenge the status quo of the current social order

...detrimental educational practices include the promotion of meritocracy

The candidate uses pedagogical skills to implement principles of equity and empowerment

The candidate understands and actively responds to issues related to
the preferential option for the poor and marginalized groups

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
You might want to keep in mind that the words of Jesus support my position and not yours. All you can say is what "appeals" to you.

I bring up your ongoing stream of lies, half-truths and distortions in response to posts that warrant it. There's no point in discussing your 'points' because they are as inane as your contention that God is both omniscien nt on shining the light of truth your way. There's little room for truth in KM's world.

You might want to keep in mind that the words of Jesus support my position and not yours.----ToO-------


...but which words do you mean ? Do you mean the sum collection of actual words Jesus spoke or the small subset of words that only ToO deems worthy of analysis or taking seriously?

Do you not see that your assertion that the words of Jesus support your position is infact a lie. The simple and obvious reason I say this is because you discount more than 50% of what he says and you are too afraid to explore them in an adult manner.

In comparison I am at least willing to explore the verses that you quote and do take them seriously and consider them worthy of analysis. You are not able to reciprocate because you just can't handle the truth that you have edited jesus and he said a lot more than you quote.

That's the big difference between us , only one of us is prepared to take Jesus as he is actually presenting himself across the entire range of his words.

If you want to be selective and refuse to explore more than half of what he says (or does for that matter) then fine , but don't give us the "words of Jesus support my position " BS.