Originally posted by Ragnorak
There is no assumption that top level Catholics were involved in finding alternative dioceses for paedophiles. This is fact! Do you think a lowly bishop was able to engineer this on their own? And you accuse me of fantasy?
Studies into how many got caught abusing children? "Got caught" is the key phrase.
The Magdelene Sisters Laundries kept girls ...[text shortened]... al rhetoric? You have got to be joking? Again, you've already accused me of fantasy?
D
There is no assumption that top level Catholics were involved in finding alternative dioceses for paedophiles. This is fact! Do you think a lowly bishop was able to engineer this on their own? And you accuse me of fantasy?
1. Earlier, you claimed that "the very highest authority in the Vatican" (i.e. the Pope) gave "orders" that abusing priests be moved between dioceses. Now you've changed it to "top level Catholics" (I presume you mean heads of Curial departments) were "involved".
a. Do you agree that your current claim is weaker than your earlier one?
b. Do you agree that you do not have any evidence to establish as "fact" that the Pope ordered the transfer of any abusing priest between dioceses?
c. Consequently, do you agree that this weakens your assumption that "the Catholic Church not only hides, but supports ... paedophilia and child abuse" since, by your own admission, it is based on the "fact" that "orders came from the top"?
2. Under canon law, all that is required to effect the transfer of a priest between dioceses is the written consent of the two bishops involved (Can. 267). The Congregation for the Clergy becomes involved only if the priest appeals against the decision of his bishop (Can. 270,
Pastor Bonus - Art. 93).
a. Do you agree that "lowly bishops" can "engineer" the transfer of priests between dioceses on their own?
d. Consequently, do you agree that your inference that "top level Catholics" (i.e. Curial HODs) were "involved" is unjustified?
c. Do you agree that you do not have any positive evidence to establish as "fact" that heads of Curial departments were involved in "finding alternate dioceses for paedophiles"?
d. Do you agree that you cannot establish as fact the weaker claim you made this time around?
I'm not accusing you of fantasy -- I'm demonstrating that your position consists of unsubstantiated allegations and possibly wild speculation.
Studies into how many got caught abusing children? "Got caught" is the key phrase.
There are studies into those convicted, found guilty in civil proceedings or even simply accused. There are also studies with in-depth confidential personal and peer interviews where priests revealed their own crimes. As I said, why don't you get some facts to back you up? Shouldn't be that hard.
The Magdelene Sisters Laundries kept girls who got pregnant out of wedlock under lock and key, so that they could work the laundry. They could never leave unless a family member signed them out.
Under the rules of Magdalene asylums, non-consecrated residents were free to leave when they wished it. Do you have substantiation for your "could never leave unless a family member signed them out" claim? If you look at the Wikipedia Talk page you will see that such claims have been removed because they cannot be substantiated.
LOL. A Catholic priest being obliged to say mass? Now that's laughable.
Regardless of whether it's "laughable" to you, they are indeed obliged by canon law (Can. 213, Can. 843.1, Can. 848).
You obviously haven't met some local Irish priests, who are too mean to turn on heating during christenings (even after collecting payment), so that the child gets pneumonia. The same priest drives an SUV. Poor fella.
"Some" (not all?) local Irish priests? Tell me, how many Catholic priests have you met in your lifetime? What % of them fit this description?
Political rhetoric? You have got to be joking?
I'm clearly not. Until you can start putting up some facts to justify your allegations that's the most charitable way to describe it.