14 Nov 11
In response to JWs on this site claiming that they have much lower rate of Child Abuse that other organisations. Check out the true story.
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"In the organization, you have to have two witnesses, and of course it's almost impossible to have two witnesses to a child molestation. So if a parent comes with their daughter to the elder, they ask and he says, no, I didn't do it, then that's the end of the matter. I would like to see them recognize it, take it to the civil authorities and professionals that are capable and qualified to help the victims." Joe Anderson, former Jehovah's Witness elder. 1
Placing abuse in perspective:
Since the year 2000, evidence has emerged of widespread child sexual abuse within the Roman Catholic Church, and of subsequent payoffs and cover-ups by the church. Some evidence of sexual abuse within the Watchtower Society (WTS) has also appeared in the media in recent years. What is missing is a measure of balance.
Sexual abuse is found throughout society. Approximately 1% of girls are so abused by their fathers before puberty, and about 1% by their step-fathers. Abuse of boys is at a lower level. There is really no reliable data which demonstrates whether religion plays a role in this phenomenon. We have never located any trustworthy evidence that sexual abuse of pre-pubertal children is higher or lower in the WTS when compared to the Roman Catholic Church, other faith groups, or in society as a whole.
WTS rules about abuse:
Christianity bases its beliefs and practices on the Christian Scriptures (New Testament). Three main themes in the Scriptures are:
- A person should forgive someone who has hurt or abused them.
- Individuals can be redeemed.
- People can change through prayer and spiritual support.
These biblical themes often come into conflict with secular standards, which may include beliefs that:
- Abusive pedophiles, hebephiles, and ephebophilies should be punished for their crimes against children.
- Child sexual abuse perpetrators typically molest dozens of children before they are caught. Thus, they have to be isolated from new potential victims, at least until they receive counseling and there is some confidence that they will not reoffend.
- Parents need to be informed if a child abuser is in their group or neighborhood.
Every religious institution develops their own policies and regulations concerning accusations of child sexual and physical abuse. The Jehovah's Witnesses organization follows a biblical standard when investigating allegations of any offense on the part of a member. Proof that an offense has occurred requires either: A confession on the part of the alleged perpetrator, or The testimony of at least two witnesses to a single case of abuse, 2 or The testimony of one witness to abuse, followed by testimony of a second witness to another instance of abuse. 2,3
In the case of sexual abuse, the only witnesses are usually the perpetrator and the victim. As a result, proof cannot often be obtained unless the perpetrator is willing to confess to the crime. According to a 1995 article in the Watchtower, a publication of the Watchtower Society (WTS), if proof cannot be obtained, elders are to "explain to the accuser that nothing more can be done in a judicial (church disciplinary) way...the congregation will continue to view the one accused as an innocent person." The article suggested that "The question of his guilt or innocence can be safely left in Jehovah's (God's) hands." Some victims ask for more.
Read the whole story at ... http://www.religioustolerance.org/witness7.htm
14 Nov 11
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999And this is coming from a so called Christian who threatend to rape the women in my family in writing a couple years ago here at RHP? What sins exactly are you trying to condemn?
In response to JWs on this site claiming that they have much lower rate of Child Abuse that other organisations. Check out the true story.
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"In the organization, you have to have two witnesses, and of course it's almost impossible to have two witnesses to a child molestation. So if a parent comes with their e.
Read the whole story at ... http://www.religioustolerance.org/witness7.htm
You are the perfect model of a hypocrite.....
14 Nov 11
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75Yuk ! I threatened what? I dont even know anything about you and your family. For all I know youall might be disease-ridden, drug-infested trailer trash .. so dont flatter yourself.
And this is coming from a so called Christian who threatend to rape the women in my family in writing a couple years ago here at RHP? What sins exactly are you trying to condemn?
You are the perfect model of a hypocrite.....
What about the contents of OP? What .. no spam-bombing ? Where are the cut and pastes from the JW site? I guess they dont really have an answer to this one.
I dont think you know the meaning of 'hypocrite'. Check the meaning of the word before using it and embarassing yourself.
14 Nov 11
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999Of course you don't remember..how convienent of you.
Yuk ! I threatened what? I dont even know anything about you and your family. For all I know youall might be disease-ridden, drug-infested trailer trash .. so dont flatter yourself.
What about the contents of OP? What .. no spam-bombing ? Where are the cut and pastes from the JW site? I guess they dont really have an answer to this one.
I don ...[text shortened]... eaning of 'hypocrite'. Check the meaning of the word before using it and embarassing yourself.
The last time you disappeared when I brougth this up because of you blasting someones morals and putting yourself up as some holier then thou person, you ran and hid for a few months from the forums.
Shall I find the thread and republish it again for all to see?
14 Nov 11
Originally posted by menace71Do you put mans laws first or God's word the Bible?
Regardless of group sect ,cult, religion if allegations of abuse sexual or otherwise come out the correct authorities need to be called and the cases need to be investigated. Hiding it will not help anyone at all. Any group who hides this is committing a crime against the victim.
Manny
14 Nov 11
3 edits
Originally posted by galveston75This strikes me as a terrible response to a fair question made by Manny; implicitly taking Rajk999's side in this discussion doesn't sit well for me but damn that's a horrible (and worrying) answer you give here...Anything goes so long as it is sanctioned by a group that claims to do the bidding of God eh!? 😞
Do you put mans laws first or God's word the Bible?
14 Nov 11
Originally posted by galveston75Yes please. Find the thread and let me see what you talking about.
Of course you don't remember..how convienent of you.
The last time you disappeared when I brougth this up because of you blasting someones morals and putting yourself up as some holier then thou person, you ran and hid for a few months from the forums.
Shall I find the thread and republish it again for all to see?
14 Nov 11
Originally posted by galveston75i can understand one persons work against another, and would you go along with that if someone if a cild said it against a teacher, my thoughts are it should be taken to the police A.S.A.P. even if its proved foundless. doubt god would have any problem with that
Do you put mans laws first or God's word the Bible?
14 Nov 11
1 edit
Originally posted by stokerWhat of a Child Molester?
i can understand one persons work against another, and would you go along with that if someone if a cild said it against a teacher, my thoughts are it should be taken to the police A.S.A.P. even if its proved foundless. doubt god would have any problem with that
What if a baptized adult Christian sexually molests a child? Is the sinner so wicked that Jehovah will never forgive him? Not necessarily so. Jesus said that ‘blasphemy against the holy spirit’ was unforgivable. And Paul said that there is no sacrifice for sins left for one who practices sin willfully despite knowing the truth. (Luke 12:10; Hebrews 10:26, 27) But nowhere does the Bible say that an adult Christian who sexually abuses a child—whether incestuously or otherwise—cannot be forgiven. Indeed, his sins can be washed clean if he repents sincerely from the heart and turns his conduct around. However, he may still have to struggle with the wrong fleshly impulses he cultivated. (Ephesians 1:7) And there may be consequences that he cannot avoid.
Depending on the law of the land where he lives, the molester may well have to serve a prison term or face other sanctions from the State. The congregation will not protect him from this. Moreover, the man has revealed a serious weakness that henceforth will have to be taken into account. If he seems to be repentant, he will be encouraged to make spiritual progress, share in the field service, even have parts in the Theocratic Ministry School and nonteaching parts in the Service Meeting. This does not mean, though, that he will qualify to serve in a position of responsibility in the congregation. What are the Scriptural reasons for this?
For one thing, an elder must be “self-controlled.” (Titus 1:8) True, none of us have perfect self-control. (Romans 7:21-25) But a dedicated adult Christian who falls into the sin of child sexual abuse reveals an unnatural fleshly weakness.
Experience has shown that such an adult may well molest other children. True, not every child molester repeats the sin, but many do. And the congregation cannot read hearts to tell who is and who is not liable to molest children again. (Jeremiah 17:9) Hence, Paul’s counsel to Timothy applies with special force in the case of baptized adults who have molested children: “Never lay your hands hastily upon any man; neither be a sharer in the sins of others.” (1 Timothy 5:22) For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer or serve in any other special, full-time service.—Compare the principle at Exodus 21:28, 29.
Some may ask, ‘Have not some committed other types of sin and apparently repented, only to repeat their sin later?’ Yes, that has happened, but there are other factors to consider. If, for example, an individual makes immoral advances to another adult, the adult should be able to resist his or her advances. Children are much easier to deceive, confuse, or terrorize. The Bible speaks of a child’s lack of wisdom. (Proverbs 22:15; 1 Corinthians 13:11) Jesus used children as an example of humble innocence. (Matthew 18:4; Luke 18:16, 17) The innocence of a child includes a complete lack of experience. Most children are open, eager to please, and thus vulnerable to abuse by a scheming adult whom they know and trust. Therefore, the congregation has a responsibility before Jehovah to protect its children.
Well-trained children learn to obey and honor their parents, the elders, and other adults. (Ephesians 6:1, 2; 1 Timothy 5:1, 2; Hebrews 13:7) It would be a shocking perversion if one of these authority figures were to misuse that child’s innocent trust so as to seduce or force him or her to submit to sexual acts. Those who have been sexually molested in this way often struggle for years to overcome the resulting emotional trauma. Hence, a child molester is subject to severe congregational discipline and restrictions. It is not his status as an authority figure that should be of concern but, rather, the unblemished purity of the congregation.—1 Corinthians 5:6; 2 Peter 3:14.
If a child molester sincerely repents, he will recognize the wisdom of applying Bible principles. If he truly learns to abhor what is wicked, he will despise what he did and struggle to avoid repeating his sin. (Proverbs 8:13; Romans 12:9) Further, he will surely thank Jehovah for the greatness of His love, as a result of which a repentant sinner, such as he is, can still worship our holy God and hope to be among “the upright” who will reside on earth forever.—Proverbs 2:21.
So to get this straight if anyone who commits sexual abuse to anyone we do not hide them from the law. But according to the Bible if that person is repentant then we try to help but with heavy restrictions and they will be watched.
The person or child that has been offended would use all means possible to stay away from that person by either going to another congregation or the offender moving away. Common sense would be due here.
But if this person did not repent or satisfy the congregation and it wanting to protect the individuals in it, then the authorities could be notified buy the victim.
The reason the Bible wants 2 witnesses is to prevint false accusations. If another cannot be found then the wisdom of the elders and knowing the facts and situations would lead them to a decision on how to proceed.
14 Nov 11
Originally posted by Rajk999You know it's been removed as disgusting post like that are but here is the surrounding postings:
Yes please. Find the thread and let me see what you talking about.
12 Jul '09 16:03
The post that was quoted here has been removed
OK Raj..you've crossed the line now dude. I'll do all I can to get you banned from the forums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
13 Jul '09 16:13
Originally posted by daniel58
Can't you guys be nice to each other?
We are really trying but when someone like Rajk999 says the things he does about the women in my family then he's crossing the lines..
But I'm sorry if I've offended you or others in any way...Steve.
13 Jul '09 18:39
Originally posted by daniel58
You are right nobody has a right to do that to women in your family, in fact it's downright wrong, but I don't think YOU said anything wrong but other people.
It's always wrong to act like people aren't important or call them names, or say bad words, what I'm saying is the Truth, to try to get you guys to understand it, to help you see it more clearly that's all I'm not angry.
Thank you for your viewpoint...
Bring back any memories yet?
14 Nov 11
Originally posted by galveston75I certainly did not say that I (ME) will do anything to your family. I remember that I said something (cant remember exactly) which you took totally out of context. The same way you are a drama-queen right now over-reacting and behaving as if the post I make about the JWs is a personal attack on you.
You know it's been removed as disgusting post like that are but here is the surrounding postings:
12 Jul '09 16:03
The post that was quoted here has been removed
OK Raj..you've crossed the line now dude. I'll do all I can to get you banned from the forums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
13 Jul '09 16:13
Originally posted by daniel58
Can't y ...[text shortened]... not angry.
Thank you for your viewpoint...
Bring back any memories yet?
This is something you and RC cannot handle. Nobody can discuss anything about the JW without both of you thinking its a personal attack. Between both of you, you post the most insults of all the posters here put together. Yesterday FMF was apparently surprised, that instead of responding to the post which was simply information without any comment by me, you resorted to atttacking me. But this is your normal MO.
Apparently we must all agree with you and RC and the JWs otherwise you get insultive.
14 Nov 11
Originally posted by Rajk999You said that "you would be very happy to show all the women in my family how much of a man you are" were exactly the words you wrote. They obviously would not concent to you so that implys the only other way you could show how much of a man you really are.
I certainly did not say that I (ME) will do anything to your family. I remember that I said something (cant remember exactly) which you took totally out of context. The same way you are a drama-queen right now over-reacting and behaving as if the post I make about the JWs is a personal attack on you.
This is something you and RC cannot handle. Nobody can ...[text shortened]... mal MO.
Apparently we must all agree with you and RC and the JWs otherwise you get insultive.
Now what kind of "Christain" would make that kind of statement?
And you dare throw stones especially when you haven't a clue to the way we handle when and if these problems in our congregations comes up..............
Mind your business and try to do some good for once in these forums because up to this date I've seen none.
14 Nov 11
Originally posted by galveston75Did you tell me something to provoke such a response? What was it?
You said that "you would be very happy to show all the women in my family how much of a man you are" were exactly the words you wrote. They obviously would not concent to you so that implys the only other way you could show how much of a man you really are.
Now what kind of "Christain" would make that kind of statement?
And you dare throw stone ...[text shortened]... s and try to do some good for once in these forums because up to this date I've seen none.
It is clear how the JWs handle child abuse situations. Read the article, it is not rocket science. For one thing they WANT TWO WITNESSES ,, why ? the Bible says so.
How the hell do you get TWO witnesses, who have seen a JW old fart, abuse someones 8 yr old daughter. That might never happen. So when the JWs claim that they had 10 cases of proven child abuse in a given year, it really means that there were 200 cases.
On another website the JW Kingdom Hall was described as a paradise for pedophiles, becuase the requirement for 2 witnesses before anything can be done.
14 Nov 11
Originally posted by galveston75Suppose a daughter accuses her father (both JWs) of raping her. She says it's happened once, and she is the only witness. He denies it. She wants to take the matter to the police. Would the WTS, the Elders on site, or anybody else in a position of religious authority in the congregation attempt to dissuade her from taking the matter to the police? Would they encourage her to do so?
What of a Child Molester?
What if a baptized adult Christian sexually molests a child? Is the sinner so wicked that Jehovah will never forgive him? Not necessarily so. Jesus said that ‘blasphemy against the holy spirit’ was unforgivable. And Paul said that there is no sacrifice for sins left for one who practices sin willfully despite knowing the truth ...[text shortened]... the elders and knowing the facts and situations would lead them to a decision on how to proceed.