Chimpanzees Laughing

Originally posted by black beetle
OK, let's check this variation of yours, and let's have it at a smaller scale -we could talk a bit, not about the creation of the whole world but solely about the creation of a tiny observer within our world.

So kindly please explain which way our mind created the flower that you offered the other day to your Lady😵

I don't claim to know how or 'which way' our minds create the world. I suspect the answer would raise more questions. I'm more interested in why more people haven't realized this fact,ie.that with our thoughts we create the world. I would contend that 'positive' thinking is more powerful than 'negative' thinking.
btw when I said my 'brain' was dying the other day I didn't necessarily mean that was a bad thing, just an adjustment.
What in your opinion would be a good definition of 'intelligence'?

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
[b]…All thinking.
….

So all thinking is “clear positive thinking”?
what about if I hear thunder and think “No! the gods must be angry!” (some people probably thought this in medieval times -perhaps some people still do! -even some people (religious nuts) in this forum!) would this be “clear positive thinking”?

…With our minds we creat ...[text shortened]... rver etc -nothing wrong with quantum physics -just this particular extreme interpretation of it.

Did I sat that,(ie.that all thinking is positive)? If I did i re-tract it.

To answer the rest of your question I would like to pose a scenario:
A young person living on an island in the Pacific is brought up with a certain type of thinking. Lets say (s)he is indoctrinated with all manner of religous and appocalyptic thoughts. eg. Lets say they are told that they must try to understand the nature of the universe bofore their world ends.
For that person in that time their thought constructs might be totally in sync with what they observe.
For a person living on an island in the Pacific their version/vision of events may have become totally true. Like the tsunami that wiped out entire island communities recently.
In their world the appocalyptic warnings have become true. They don't know about the rest of the world and for all they know the world has ended.
Do see what I am trying to get at? If not I will have another shot at explaining.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Did I sat that,(ie.that all thinking is positive)? If I did i re-tract it.

To answer the rest of your question I would like to pose a scenario:
A young person living on an island in the Pacific is brought up with a certain type of thinking. Lets say (s)he is indoctrinated with all manner of religous and appocalyptic thoughts. eg. Lets say they are has ended.
Do see what I am trying to get at? If not I will have another shot at explaining.

Personally I wouldn’t call that “clear positive thinking”:

Person X forms a mental model of reality Y NOT based on reason/evidence but on mere say so (he was simply brought up to believe Y).
Then there is an occurrence C that is consistent with Y and then he responds by just assuming that this is conformation of Y even though, for he could know, occurrence C may have happened anyway even if Y is incorrect! This is an irrational way of thinking because if occurrence C could, for all he knew, be able to occur anyway regardless of whether or not model of reality Y is true, then occurrence C is not conformation of Y.

I would say a “clearer” way of thinking (at least more rational) is firstly question old dogmas and beliefs and simply don’t believe anything that is said to be true that isn’t based on reason/evidence including model of reality Y and then if there is some occurrence C that is consistent with Y but might have happened even if Y is incorrect, just conclude that it is merely consistent with Y and do not take it as conformation of Y.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
Personally I wouldn’t call that “clear positive thinking”:

Person X forms a mental model of reality Y NOT based on reason/evidence but on mere say so (he was simply brought up to believe Y).
Then there is an occurrence C that is consistent with Y and then he responds by just assuming that this is conformation of Y even though, for he could know, ...[text shortened]... rect, just conclude that it is merely consistent with Y and do not take it as conformation of Y.

Do you not think this is a nice microcosm of our collective experience.
Our scientific knowledge is not complete just as the islander's in the example wasn't.
As for 'clear' thinking it is really just a matter of perspective.
It is relative to the individual. The 'clearest thinking' would be not thinking (as we know) it at all.
Still to fathom this deeper kind of knowledge surely we need to consider that we might be like that islander, and that our 'scientific knowledge' is just like an incomplete shamans' story that we are still waiting the end for.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I don't claim to know how or 'which way' our minds create the world. I suspect the answer would raise more questions. I'm more interested in why more people haven't realized this fact,ie.that with our thoughts we create the world. I would contend that 'positive' thinking is more powerful than 'negative' thinking.
btw when I said my 'brain' was dying t ...[text shortened]... an adjustment.
What in your opinion would be a good definition of 'intelligence'?

Yes, we use our body/ speech/ mind mechanism in order to cause transformations and changes to the observer "world" by introducing new elements of reality into its systems;

"Positive" and "negative thinking" as you pose it, is a dualist approach -and in my opinion worthless because it cannot help "as is" the Human to get to know her/ his nature. For, who is able to give you direction but yourself? Nobody can save you, you have the responsibility to help yourself. Ignorance of our nature is the agent that makes us cause vast damage to every sentient being of our planet, ourselves included.

Dead brain! When I control my thoughts my mind supports me, and this kind of thoughts is valuable to the hilt. When my thoughts emerge non-stop from within on their own, my mind has hijacked me
-and that mind has to be executed by myself. If you killed the latter "brain", fine🙂

I understand intelligence as the sum of my IQ and EQ, plus my ability to transform constantly myself through the process of my conceptual awareness and the process of my non-conceptual awareness😵

Originally posted by black beetle
Yes, we use our body/ speech/ mind mechanism in order to cause transformations and changes to the observer "world" by introducing new elements of reality into its systems;

"Positive" and "negative thinking" as you pose it, is a dualist approach -and in my opinion worthless because it cannot help "as is" the Human to get to know her/ his nature. For, he process of my conceptual awareness and the process of my non-conceptual awareness😵

I propose that 'positive' and ' negative' thinking have a residual effect in the 'Greater Mind'and not worthless, in my humble opinion. (so for all their short-sightedness,they do have some effect)

As to the rest of your post I agree

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I propose that 'positive' and ' negative' thinking have a residual effect in the 'Greater Mind'and not worthless, in my humble opinion. (so for all their short-sightedness,they do have some effect)

As to the rest of your post I agree

Gankyil😵

Originally posted by black beetle
Gankyil😵

WTF? (or is that a koan?)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Do you not think this is a nice microcosm of our collective experience.
Our scientific knowledge is not complete just as the islander's in the example wasn't.
As for 'clear' thinking it is really just a matter of perspective.
It is relative to the individual. The 'clearest thinking' would be not thinking (as we know) it at all.
Still to fathom thi ...[text shortened]... ledge' is just like an incomplete shamans' story that we are still waiting the end for.

…Our scientific knowledge is not complete just as the islander's in the example wasn't.
...

Our knowledge will always be incomplete but we, of course, we can have incomplete knowledge and still think perfectly rationally so, therefore, having incomplete knowledge is no excuse for irrational thinking.
All irrational thinking (whether it be superstition or some other kind of illogical thinking) should always be very rigorously discouraged because there can be harmful consequences for such irrational thinking.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
[b]…Our scientific knowledge is not complete just as the islander's in the example wasn't.
...

Our knowledge will always be incomplete but we, of course, we can have incomplete knowledge and still think perfectly rationally so, therefore, having incomplete knowledge is no excuse for irrational thinking.
All irrational thinking (whether it b ...[text shortened]... rigorously discouraged because there can be harmful consequences for such irrational thinking.[/b]

There will come a time when we will have to leave our rational little minds behind. Until then we can debate the pros and cons til the cows come home🙂
(I must admit I do get nervous when I see your name on the last post. You are so hard to answer.Thank you AH)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
There will come a time when we will have to leave our rational little minds behind. Until then we can debate the pros and cons til the cows come home🙂
(I must admit I do get nervous when I see your name on the last post. You are so hard to answer.Thank you AH)

And which way my dear karoly aczel the Human can leave her/ his "rational little mind" whilt hooked ?he remin on dualist terms like "positive" and "negative", like YinYang?







Gankyil😵

Originally posted by black beetle
And which way my dear karoly aczel the Human can leave her/ his "rational little mind" whilt hooked ?he remin on dualist terms like "positive" and "negative", like YinYang?







Gankyil😵

Yessir!!😵
(err,i thought you were affirming something. Are you? or was that a question? either way -yes sir!)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
There will come a time when we will have to leave our rational little minds behind. Until then we can debate the pros and cons til the cows come home🙂
(I must admit I do get nervous when I see your name on the last post. You are so hard to answer.Thank you AH)

Excuse me for the inconvenience karoly aczel; the right post of mine is the following:

And which way my dear karoly aczel the Human can leave her/ his "rational little mind" whilst hooked on dualist terms like "positive" and "negative", like YinYang?

Gankyil😵

Originally posted by black beetle
Excuse me for the inconvenience karoly aczel; the right post of mine is the following:

And which way my dear karoly aczel the Human can leave her/ his "rational little mind" whilst hooked on dualist terms like "positive" and "negative", like YinYang?

Gankyil😵

Are you implying I am 'hooked' on positive and negative terms?
Yes I will use positive and negative terms but I am certainly not hooked on them. I have had many a brush with cold hard reality to stay down one of those little rabbit holes. But ,certainly, I dont necessarily expect you to take my word for it.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Are you implying I am 'hooked' on positive and negative terms?
Yes I will use positive and negative terms but I am certainly not hooked on them. I have had many a brush with cold hard reality to stay down one of those little rabbit holes. But ,certainly, I dont necessarily expect you to take my word for it.

I mean that the "Greater Mind" you mentioned earlier, it has nothing to do with YinYang; and I pointed to the moon, not to my finger😵