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    16 Mar '10 01:341 edit
    Have they lived up to their claim of being followers of the Prince of Peace?

    Two world wars started in the realm of so-called Christian nations. “Christian” political leaders resorted to arms in 1914 and 1939, and the clergy in all contending nations gave their blessing.

    The Columbia History of the World states regarding World War I: “Truth was devalued along with life, and hardly a voice was raised in protest. The guardians of God’s word led the martial chorus. Total war came to mean total hatred.” Army chaplains urged their soldiers on with patriotic fervor as the youth of both sides became cannon fodder. The same history book states: “The systematic poisoning of men’s minds by paroxysms of nationalism . . . further obstructed the search for peace.”

    beating their swords into ploughshares for almost two thousand years.????
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    16 Mar '10 01:391 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Have they lived up to their claim of being followers of the Prince of Peace?

    Two world wars started in the realm of so-called Christian nations. “Christian” political leaders resorted to arms in 1914 and 1939, and the clergy in all contending nations gave their blessing.

    The Columbia History of the World states regarding World War I: “Truth wa ...[text shortened]... search for peace.”

    beating their swords into ploughshares for almost two thousand years.????
    The pope was sponsored massive military efforts against the Muslims in the Middle East. These came to be called “holy” Crusades, but there was nothing holy about them. The first—termed the “People’s Crusade”—set the tone for what was to come.

    Before leaving Europe, an unruly army, inflamed by preachers, turned on the Jews in Germany, slaughtering them in one town after another. Why? Historian Hans Eberhard Mayer says: “The argument that the Jews, as the enemies of Christ, deserved to be punished was merely a feeble attempt to conceal the real motive: greed.”

    The Protestant rebellion in the 16th century dislodged Roman Catholicism from power in many European lands. One result was the Thirty Years’ War (1618-48)—“one of the most terrible wars in European history,” according to The Universal History of the World. The basic cause of the war? “The hatred of Catholic for Protestant, of Protestant for Catholic.”

    By this time, Christendom had begun to expand beyond Europe, carrying “Christian” civilization into other parts of the earth. This military expansion was marked by cruelty and greed. In the Americas, the Spanish conquistadores quickly destroyed the indigenous American civilizations. Noted one history book: “In general, the Spanish governors destroyed the native civilization, without introducing the European. The thirst for gold was the principal motive that drew them to the New World.”

    Protestant missionaries also went out from Europe to other continents. One of the results of their work was the promotion of colonial expansion. A widespread view today of the Protestant missionary effort is: “In many instances the missionary enterprise has been used as a justification and a cover for the domination of people. The interrelation between mission, technology, and imperialism is well known.”

    The close association between Christendom’s religions and the state has continued down to our day. The last two world wars were fought primarily between “Christian” nations. Clergymen on both sides encouraged their young men to fight and try to kill the enemy—who often belonged to the same religion. As was noted in the book If the Churches Want World Peace: “Certainly it is no credit to [the churches] that the war system of today grew up and has worked its greatest havoc among states devoted to the cause of Christianity.”
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    16 Mar '10 01:52
    A century of Christendom’s missionary work in Africa has brought no better result, as was well illustrated in Rwanda, a land reputedly 80-percent Catholic.

    The New York Times of July 7, 1995, reported: “Golias, a liberal, lay Catholic magazine published in Lyons [France], plans to identify 27 more Rwandan priests and four nuns who it says killed or encouraged the killings in Rwanda last year.” African Rights, a human rights organization in London, had this comment: “Even more than its silence, the churches must answer for the active complicity of some of its priests, pastors and nuns in the genocide.”
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    16 Mar '10 01:54
    Peacemakers or Warmongers?

    The war that ripped apart the former Yugoslavia is a case in point. Despite the injustices and cruelties that have been taking place for years, the churches have found it very difficult to take a united stand on the conflict in that country. Why? Dr. Williamson notes that despite their supposed Christian bond, Serbian and Croatian clergy are just as divided as their countries’ politicians. There and elsewhere Christendom’s clergy, whether Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant, act not as peacemakers but as “chaplains to their own side.” Though more than 300 churches now belong to the WCC, Dr. Williamson admits that it is “surprisingly hard to find examples of churches actually making . . . peace.”
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    16 Mar '10 01:56
    German historian Klaus Scholder explains that “by tradition German Catholicism had especially close ties with Rome.” Seeing in Nazism a bulwark against Communism, the Vatican was not averse to using its influence to strengthen Hitler’s hand. “Fundamental decisions shifted more and more to the Curia,” says Scholder, “and in fact Catholicism’s status and future in the Third Reich was finally decided almost solely in Rome.”

    The part Christendom played in both world wars led to a severe loss of prestige. As the Concise Dictionary of the Christian World Mission explains: “Non-Christians had before their eyes . . . the evident fact that nations with a thousand years of Christian teaching behind them had failed to control their passions and had set the whole world ablaze for the satisfaction of less than admirable ambitions.”
  6. Melbourne, Australia
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    16 Mar '10 02:04
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Have they lived up to their claim of being followers of the Prince of Peace?

    Two world wars started in the realm of so-called Christian nations. “Christian” political leaders resorted to arms in 1914 and 1939, and the clergy in all contending nations gave their blessing.

    The Columbia History of the World states regarding World War I: “Truth wa ...[text shortened]... search for peace.”

    beating their swords into ploughshares for almost two thousand years.????
    What's your point?
    Aren't you a Christian?
    Not wanting to provide any sort of out for those of a religious persuasion, but isn't history full of people killing other people? You can justify (and oppose) this in a whole number of different ways - including, but not limited to, through religions.
  7. Standard membermenace71
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    16 Mar '10 02:06
    Crusades? No excuse!!
    Wars ? No excuses!!

    I agree a true Christian should not agree with any of these actions in history.
    Maybe I would have been persecuted for my beliefs but killing Muslims is not just or right. Jesus will separate the wheat from the tares. There are many who claim the name of Christ but know Him not. I also do not ascribe to physical violence to any group even the JW's. My war with the JW's would be Philosophical and theological but never physical. I even agree that the JW's have a right to believe what they want to believe and write what they want. So my funeral? No I agree with you on this one and it saddens me that Christendom can't free it's self from these acts in history. I however have enough intelligence to distinguish that just because some so called Christians did this does not mean they were truly Christians.

    Manny
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    16 Mar '10 02:25
    Originally posted by amannion
    What's your point?
    Aren't you a Christian?
    Not wanting to provide any sort of out for those of a religious persuasion, but isn't history full of people killing other people? You can justify (and oppose) this in a whole number of different ways - including, but not limited to, through religions.
    my point is, that what should be a force for resisting warfare, is nought but a extension of it, and has proven totally false to its own power. Its a semblance, a form of Godly devotion, a façade a sham!

    yes i am a Christian, and am proud to state that i follow the teaching of Christ, which are not synonymous with the actions of Christendom.
  9. Donationrwingett
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    16 Mar '10 02:27
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    German historian Klaus Scholder explains that “by tradition German Catholicism had especially close ties with Rome.” Seeing in Nazism a bulwark against Communism, the Vatican was not averse to using its influence to strengthen Hitler’s hand. “Fundamental decisions shifted more and more to the Curia,” says Scholder, “and in fact Catholicism’s status a ...[text shortened]... sions and had set the whole world ablaze for the satisfaction of less than admirable ambitions.”
    You attacks leave off one very prominent group of people. Those who willingly follow the orders. You justly attack all the leaders and clerics at the top who distort Jesus' message to propagate their self-serving message. But the people who unquestioningly follow those orders are at least as much to blame. They need to have the courage to disobey unjust orders. The Mennonite groups, in WWI, did just that and paid a terrible price for their acts of conscience.
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    16 Mar '10 02:33
    Originally posted by menace71
    Crusades? No excuse!!
    Wars ? No excuses!!

    I agree a true Christian should not agree with any of these actions in history.
    Maybe I would have been persecuted for my beliefs but killing Muslims is not just or right. Jesus will separate the wheat from the tares. There are many who claim the name of Christ but know Him not. I also do not ascribe t ...[text shortened]... ause some so called Christians did this does not mean they were truly Christians.

    Manny
    some? some? did you not register the learned historians comments, hardly a dissenting voice could be heard! The church bells tolled and a generation of young men were carted of like cattle to the slaughter. What is Christendom but a facade, having as Paul states, a form of Godly devotion, but proving false to its power.

    What passing bells for these who die as cattle?
    Only the monstrous anger of the guns.
    Only the stuttering rifles' rapid rattle
    Can patter out their hasty orisons.
  11. Standard membermenace71
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    16 Mar '10 02:35
    I think RC only sees the world from the point of The JW's and can't make distinctions to the contrary.




    Manny
  12. Standard membermenace71
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    16 Mar '10 02:37
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    some? some? did you not register the learned historians comments, hardly a dissenting voice could be heard! The church bells tolled and a generation of young men were carted of like cattle to the slaughter. What is Christendom but a facade, having as Paul states, a form of Godly devotion, but proving false to its power.

    What passing bells ...[text shortened]... he guns.
    Only the stuttering rifles' rapid rattle
    Can patter out their hasty orisons.
    ok many



    Manny
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    16 Mar '10 02:41
    Originally posted by rwingett
    You attacks leave off one very prominent group of people. Those who willingly follow the orders. You justly attack all the leaders and clerics at the top who distort Jesus' message to propagate their self-serving message. But the people who unquestioningly follow those orders are at least as much to blame. They need to have the courage to disobey unjust ord ...[text shortened]... Mennonite groups, in WWI, did just that and paid a terrible price for their acts of conscience.
    mmm, i never considered this, almost assuming that those who followed were in some misguided, as by a faulty conscience or erroneous ideology, like the quite American in Graham Greenes novel of the same name, but you may be correct, killing is killing. Who is more reprehensible, those who fall into the pit or those who lead them there?
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    16 Mar '10 02:43
    Originally posted by menace71
    ok many



    Manny
    bells Manny, church bells!
  15. Melbourne, Australia
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    16 Mar '10 02:52
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    my point is, that what should be a force for resisting warfare, is nought but a extension of it, and has proven totally false to its own power. Its a semblance, a form of Godly devotion, a façade a sham!

    yes i am a Christian, and am proud to state that i follow the teaching of Christ, which are not synonymous with the actions of Christendom.
    I still don't get the point.
    You are wasting time posting stuff here - including all the cut and pastes you included - that is pretty damn obvious.
    People do crappy things, sometimes they blame them on religions.
    So what?
    What's the revelation?
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