Your reputation for pious religious superiority proceeds

LOL!

You seem to be the only one harping about my "reputation" for something.
We were talking about Christian morals.

What is wrong with me saying that essentially "Christian morals" are the Person of Christ living within and being expressed from the man in union with Christ?

What is wrong with that?

"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit." (1 Cor. 6:17)

What a oneness.
What a blending.
What a union.

This is where the believer has to learn to live - a NEW WAY to live.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Who is it you think you are carrying a message from?

The Triune God. I'm carrying a message of the revelation of the Triune God.

Hey, should I go away from awhile ?
Want me to get out of this thread ?

Originally posted by @sonship
[b]The Triune God. I'm carrying a message of the revelation of the Triune God./b]

You believe you have been given a message from god for me and that excuses you from behaving like a conceited ass?

Originally posted by @divegeester
You believe you have been given a message from god for me and that excuses you from behaving like a conceited ass?

No special message from small g "god" for little ole you.
I had a question for you -

What is wrong with me saying that essentially "Christian morals" are the Person of Christ living within and being expressed from the man in union with Christ?

Don't worry about it though if you're overcome with resentful subjectivity there.

Originally posted by @sonship
What is wrong with me saying that essentially "Christian morals" are the Person of Christ living within and being expressed from the man in union with Christ?

I’ve no idea, this is the waffle I was referring to and which you are so prickly about:

“I don't ask "What would Jesus do?"
I do seek to know "What is Jesus DOING" in various personal situations.”

Originally posted by @sonship
What is wrong with me saying that essentially "Christian morals" are the Person of Christ living within and being expressed from the man in union with Christ?

So "Christian morals" and non-Christian morals are basically the same - you've conceded that - but what causes the word "Christian" to be attached to the word "morals" is not about the behaviour, conduct or action itself, but is instead justified [to your way of thinking] by the person who is engaging in the actions sincerely believing stuff along the lines of "... the Person of Christ living within and being expressed from the man in union with Christ", is that right?

Originally posted by @sonship
Anyone who wants to live independently from God is a follower of Satan.
Satan was the first creature that ever sought to be independent from God.

Satan's nature polluted all people born from Adam down to us. So mankind totally was damaged by the withdrawal and independence from God.

Some people may want to dwell on this but more emphasis should be g ...[text shortened]... totally and completely dependent upon God - [b]Jesus Christ. He is the source of salvation.[/b]

Do you believe, then, that there are "Christian morals" on one hand and "Satan's Morals" one the other, and that's all ~ no other kinds of morals? There are Christians who have "Christian morals" - because of what they believe - and everyone else is a "follower of Satan" and their morals are something like "Satan's morals", or words to that effect, is that right?

Originally posted by @fmf
Do you believe, then, that there are "Christian morals" on one hand and "Satan's Morals" one the other, and that's all ~ no other kinds of morals? There are Christians who have "Christian morals" - because of what they believe - and everyone else is a "follower of Satan" and their morals are something like "Satan's morals", or words to that effect, is that right?

Actually there are only God's morals. All others are immoral even if believed to be moral.

Originally posted by @eladar
Actually there are only God's morals. All others are immoral even if believed to be moral.

And what "morals" do you believe your god figure has?

Originally posted by @fmf

So "Christian morals" and non-Christian morals are basically the same - you've conceded that
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I would clarify by way of example.

Judas Iscariot showed apparent concern for the poor. That was the expression of a attribute of generosity. However, it only apparently seemed genuine, Underneath was a baser motive of contempt for the devotion that was being shown towards God.

There was some hypocrisy going on. Something of genuineness was absent.
His "good" was subtly being used to fight against God incarnate which was Christ.

Another example; The Jews who were having Christ crucified would not enter into Pilate's chamber because they did not want to be defiled on a holy day. This was an expression of an attribute of honoring God. Yet it was not genuine because of the irony that they were having the Son of God executed because of their hatred at the same time.

These illustrate that our morals apart from union with God Himself may be askew and actually crimes in the larger scheme of things.

But a morality was being expressed in both cases above.
An adherence to a moral code was seen in both examples, quite apart from Christ living in men.

- but what causes the word "Christian" to be attached to the word "morals" is not about the behavior, conduct or action itself, but is instead justified [to your way of thinking] by the person who is engaging in the actions sincerely believing stuff along the lines of "... the Person of Christ living within and being expressed from the man in union with Christ", is that right?
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I am not comfortable with all aspects of the leading nature of your question.

I have shown above the hollow hypocrisy of moral behavior in two instances.
A byproduct of learning to live by abiding in the Spirit of Christ is that this disingenuous missing of the mark (so to speak) is escaped from. First it is exposed by the heightened sensitivity of the human conscience at the presence of the Spirit of Christ. Then the action is purified.

"God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all." (1 John 1:5)

Your "good" (not to mention your evil) is shined upon, refined, tuned, enhanced and purified by Jesus Christ coming into more and more of your heart. So I stand by saying that "Christian morals" are really Christ living in a believer.


This is sincere belief about true.
It is not sincere belief about what is superstitious or not true.

Learning to live by Christ is that - a life long learning and training.

Originally posted by @sonship
Judas Iscariot showed apparent concern for the poor. That was the expression of a attribute of generosity. However, it only apparently seemed genuine, Underneath was a baser motive of contempt for the devotion that was being shown towards God.

There was some hypocrisy going on. Something of genuineness was absent.
His "good" was subtly being used to fight against God incarnate which was Christ.

And what do you think we can extrapolate from the story about Judas Iscariot that you can then apply generally to non-Christians who show concern for the poor?

Originally posted by @sonship
Another example; The Jews who were having Christ crucified would not enter into Pilate's chamber because they did not want to be defiled on a holy day. This was an expression of an attribute of honoring God. Yet it was not genuine because of the irony that they were having the Son of God executed because of their hatred at the same time.

These illustr ...[text shortened]... itious or not true.

Learning to live by Christ is that - a life long learning and training.

Yet another long waffly response. But I am tenacious. I read it twice. So, just to be clear. If a person has Christian beliefs it makes their moral behaviour better than the moral behaviour of non-Christians, right? This difference isn't created by the amount or extent or quality of their actions, behaviour or conduct, but is instead created - in your view - by the elaborate things they think about themselves and their god figure, have I understood you correctly?

Originally posted by @fmf
Do you believe, then, that there are "Christian morals" on one hand and "Satan's Morals" one the other, and that's all ~ no other kinds of morals? There are Christians who have "Christian morals" - because of what they believe - and everyone else is a "follower of Satan" and their morals are something like "Satan's morals", or words to that effect, is that right?

Do you believe, then, that there are "Christian morals" on one hand and "Satan's Morals" one the other, and that's all ~ no other kinds of morals?

Maybe it could be put that way - there are other being's morals.
I don't see much problem in expressing things in that way.

I have a focus in this discussion. It is not just to deal with curiosity for its own sake.
My focus (probably not yours) is to show that living Christ is not self improvement, or regular ethical behavior apart from union with another life.

You see, many of the moral discussions I see going on between Christians and skeptics end up in some assumptions. One of those is that the Bible is a book of Do's and Don't for man to grit his teeth and apply his natural energy to " live morally the way God SAID to in that book" .

"Go off now and be a GOOD person like the book of God said to do".

That's where objections are raised abut impossibility, impracticality of moral codes, contradictions and other objections. People will raise issues about Leviticus, Joshua's conquest, condoning of slavery (supposedly) and things like that. The debates on arguments for the existence of God from morality often go this way.

While I think arguments for the existence of God from morality can be effective they can also be misleading. They tend to make people think that they should be under the Law when the Bible reveals that salvation is to be under Grace. And grace includes Christ living in man as a kind of "power steering". You consent towards Him and He becomes everything you need in behavior pleasing to God.

There are Christians who have "Christian morals" - because of what they believe - and everyone else is a "follower of Satan" and their morals are something like "Satan's morals", or words to that effect, is that right?

Since I have used the word training and said that this is a life long process of learning to live in union with Christ, any thought that the Satanic spirit could NOT be "followed" by anyone who professes to be a Christian, is not true.

I gave examples of this already.
And that is all I'll write for this post.

So we have obviously God referring to good works of non-Christians (in a relative sense).
Ie. The moral alms given by the Gentile Cornelius before he received Christ. The angel said to Cornelius BEFORE he was a believer in Christ but only believed in God -

" ... Cornelius ... Your prayers and your alms have ascended as a memorial before God. " (Refer Acts 10:3,4)

In other words - God has noticed your morally good behavior there, apart from union with Christ.

The story does not end there with the angel going away with that encouragement. Rather the messenger informs him that it is God's will that he come to know about Jesus Christ and believe into Him.

"And now send men to Joppa and send for a certain Simon, who is surnamed Peter, this man is lodging with a certain Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea." (v.5)

You can read the whole chapter of Acts 10. This is related to my focus that God sought to bring Cornelius and all the Gentiles into union with Christ for the furthering of "Christian morals" of Christ saving them and living in them.

Here and many other places though, we see relatively "good" behavior being acknowledge by God concerning non-Christians. So a moral dimension is simply there with human beings just in view of their existence.