Christian Tradition

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Hard for you to explain 'this does not make me better only different' isnt it so you do what you can only do twist and contort it in your lying mind. I do not think I am better than pagans, I do not think I am better than pagans madquerading as christians its only in your lying and thoroughly dishonest and contorted mind that these sentiments exist ...[text shortened]... you will undoubtedly attempt to impose yourself on others as has been your pattern in the past.

It's no good ranting about it robbie; you are what you post and you posted those statements in an attempt to elevate yourself above the Christians in this forum. You do it a lot. If I was way off base here there would be people jumping in to defend you; they aren't.

hear that? its the sound of a rubber ear going, 'boing boing'.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
What is this? More paganism masquerading as Christianity. It seems like you pagan Christians are on a roll given the time of year.

It does not escape my notice that you fail to deal with the PASSAGE of John 14:23.

And actually, the more you talk about "pagan" verses Christian the more you sound like Constantine the Great yourself.

But that is quite secondary. Your Jehovah's Witness / Arian Christology amounts to Michael the archangel being the Savior who accomplished something like an atoning redemption, and the one who comes with the Father as the "We" to make an abode with the lovers of Christ.

Go back to your Kingdom Hall and ask your instructors how in the world you are going to free yourself from this charge.

You teach that the angel Michael needs to come with Jehovah the Father to make an abode with the believers in Christ. Dreadful heresy !!

Charles Taze Russell wrote the bible for the jw it's not the same book

Originally posted by tim88
Charles Taze Russell wrote the bible for the jw it's not the same book

The first translation of the New world translation by Jehovahs witnesses was not complete and published until 1961, by then Russell had been dead since October 31, 1916, prior to that, they used King James Version

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Translation_of_the_Holy_Scriptures

It is clear you don't know anything about Jehovahs Witnesses, Charles Russel and have continued to text untruths and lies. Get a reality check.

Originally posted by sonship
It does not escape my notice that you fail to deal with the PASSAGE of [b]John 14:23.

And actually, the more you talk about "pagan" verses Christian the more you sound like Constantine the Great yourself.

But that is quite secondary. Your Jehovah's Witness / Arian Christology amounts to Michael the archangel being the Savior who accompl ...[text shortened]... o come with Jehovah the Father to make an abode with the believers in Christ. Dreadful heresy !![/b]

What is an angel? A sent one. What was Christ, a sent one. Get over it.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
What is an angel? A sent one. What was Christ, a sent one. Get over it.

What is an angel? A sent one. What was Christ, a sent one. Get over it.

This logic will not work with me.

Everyone sent may be a "sent one."
But not every "sent one" is the Christ, the Son of God.

Christ was sent and the the fiery serpents were sent by God in Numbers 21:6. That does not mean that the sent fiery serpents were the same as the sent Son of God.

Christ was sent by God and the hornet was sent by God before Joshua in Joshua 24:12. That does not mean that the hornet/s were the same as the Son of God.

Your brevity of words is a flimsy tissue of excuse from not handling the real problem head on.

You cannot argue that ANY thing or ANY one sent by God is in all other respects equal in nature.

Try again. Why do you teach that Jehovah the Father and Michael the angel come together as the divine "We" in John 14:23 to make an abode with the lover of Christ ?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
The first translation of the New world translation by Jehovahs witnesses was not complete and published until 1961, by then Russell had been dead since October 31, 1916, prior to that, they used King James Version

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Translation_of_the_Holy_Scriptures

It is clear you don't know anything about Jehovahs Witnesses, Charles Russel and have continued to text untruths and lies. Get a reality check.

they tell you what you want to hear just get out of there. why do you think most people disagree with jws translation? all those people can't be wrong.
i'm telling you bcoz i like you not hate you.

Originally posted by tim88
they tell you what you want to hear just get out of there. why do you think most people disagree with jws translation? all those people can't be wrong.
i'm telling you bcoz i like you not hate you.

look, you are not informed enough to have any kind of reasonable conversation and i don't plan on battling against your ignorance, your assertions are ludicrous, get a reality check before its too late. Please spare me, i beg you.

Originally posted by sonship

What is an angel? A sent one. What was Christ, a sent one. Get over it.

This logic will not work with me.

Everyone sent may be a "sent one."
But not every "sent one" is the Christ, the Son of God.

Christ was sent and the the fiery serpents were sent by God in [b]Numbers 21:6. That does not mean that the sent ...[text shortened]... ether as the divine "We" in John 14:23 to make an abode with the lover of Christ ?[/b]

we are not talking about everyone, anyone who knows anything about scripture knows that an angel is a sent one, same as Christ was sent and you have therefore no scriptural basis (except for your pagan dogma) for objecting to the term sent one or angel being applied to the Christ for that's what he was, a sent one. No one is claiming that all sent ones are the Christ so you can stop your logically fallacy right there. Whether it works with you or not is also irrelevant, you are unimportant to these facts. Get over it.

Originally posted by tim88
why do you think most people disagree with jws translation? all those people can't be wrong.

Oh dear! You think the majority control the truth?

I'm afraid all those people are wrong.

Robbie, since I pointed out that no one is running to your defence, all my posts have received 1 thumb down. Is that you, you cheeky little devil?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie

we are not talking about everyone, anyone who knows anything about scripture knows that an angel is a sent one, same as Christ was sent and you have therefore no scriptural basis (except for your pagan dogma) for objecting to the term sent one or angel being applied to the Christ

I am not objecting against the term "angel" being applied to Christ.

I agree with J.N Darby's capitalization of Another Angel in a few places in the book of Revelation. The Christ is seen as "Another Angel" as a Messenger sent by God.

What I am logically deriving from your teaching is that the "We" whom Jesus said would come to His lovers and make an abode with them is, according to YOUR theology -

Jehovah the Father
Michael the angel (who is aka. Jesus Christ the Son of God)

" ... If anyone loves Me [Jesus - aka Michael] , he will keep My word, and My Father [Jehovah God the Almighty ] will love him, and We [Jehovah and Michael ] will come to him and make an abode with him." (See John 14:23)

You are not dealing with the issue straightforwardly or head on.
You're deflecting.

Do you teach that Jehovah and Michael the angel come to make an abode with the lover of Christ ?

If not, then which part of John 14:23 (given your belief on who Jesus Christ was) do you not agree with ?

for that's what he was, a sent one. No one is claiming that all sent ones are the Christ so you can stop your logically fallacy right there. Whether it works with you or not is also irrelevant, you are unimportant to these facts. Get over it.

What I cannot seem to "get over" is how you are evading the quite obvious implications of what you were taught by the JWs. A teaching which you are doing your utmost to evade.

Do you love Christ and keep His word ?

Did Jehovah and Michael come to make an abode with you ?

Originally posted by sonship

we are not talking about everyone, anyone who knows anything about scripture knows that an angel is a sent one, same as Christ was sent and you have therefore no scriptural basis (except for your pagan dogma) for objecting to the term sent one or angel being applied to the Christ

I am not objecting against the term "angel" being applied ...[text shortened]... love Christ and keep His word ?

Did Jehovah and Michael come to make an abode with you ?

I am not objecting against the term "angel" being applied to Christ - Jaywill

Can i get a witness!

Look your whole evaluation is based upon a tenuous interpretation of what it means to make an abode with someone, its typical trinitarian tactics, you want the facts, Christ was the firstborn of all creation (as to progeny and time), not co eternal, Christ was subject to the father (the father is greater than I) not co equal, now these two verse soundly refute your dogma, so i suggest, you give it up.

I am not objecting against the term "angel" being applied to Christ - Jaywill

Can i get a witness!

A witness to what ?

I recognize that there is ground to Christ - "the Angel of Jehovah" or The Apostle and High Priest of our confession (Apostle of course meaning a sent one.)

It is obvious that Jesus said that the Father sent Him. And also it says that the Father was always with Him. So the one who sent did not leave Him.

But all this is really not the issue. I feel that you are obfuscating the central issue here. And that is your interpretation of John 14:23.

If the question is too hard for you than I will respect the reply - "That question is too hard for me at this time."

I will respect that. But if you don't want to admit that then explain why I should NOT understand the Jehovah's Witnesses to be teaching that the Father - Jehovah AND Michael the angel will come to make an abode with the lovers of Christ as "We" in John 14:23.

Look your whole evaluation is based upon a tenuous interpretation of what it means to make an abode with someone, its typical trinitarian tactics,

For Christ to make an abode with the believers simply means for Christ to come INTO the believers.

"Test yourselves whether you are in the faith; prove yourselves. Or do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are disapproved ?" (2 Cor. 13:5)

To be "in the faith" is to realize that Jesus Christ has come into you - ie. has come to make an abode with you.

In the very chapter 14 Jesus said that the Comforter was WITH the disciples but would soon be IN the disciples.

" ... the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him; but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you." (John 14:17)

How does the divine "We" of the Father and the Son come to make an abode with the lovers of Christ? He comes through the Spirit of reality - the Holy Spirit, the Another Comforter. He was WITH the disciples for three years plus. After the death and resurrection of Christ He would be IN the disciples -

" ... but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you. (v.17)

I will not leave you as orphans, I am coming to you." (v.18)

The coming of the Comforter, the Spirit of reality is the coming of Jesus not leaving the disciples as ophans. Jesus was with them abiding. Jesus will soon, after His resurrection, be IN them. He is coming TO them.

"I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you." (v.18)

This promise is reiterated in verse 23 -

" ... and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (see. v23)

So why do you not pray -

"Lord Jesus, I ask you to cleanse me of my sins, all of them. And I ask you to come to abide in me. Come in to my heart Lord Jesus."

Have the Jehovah's Witnesses indoctrinated you to such a degree that you recoil in revulsion at uttering such a saving prayer ?

The Devil is behind that teaching holding you back from allowing Christ to make an abode with you. The Devil has deceived you into thinking you are doing Jehovah God a favor by rejecting Christ's offer to come to make an abode with you.

Right now Robbie I am the best friend you may have in the world. Do you know why? It is because I am telling you the truth.