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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    08 Jun '18 11:16
    The doctrine of Christians of the OSAS type pertaining to sin is that all their sins are forgiven by the blood of Christ and they will site passages to prove that their doctrine is correct. In a nutshell they can sin and be assured that these sins will be forgiven and none of these sins will endanger their entry into the Kingdom of God.

    These passages which they quote to support this doctrine are mostly taken out of context, or not read properly and in full ie to get the whole true meaning.

    First Jesus came for what and He died for what ? Jesus came to preach and to send out preachers to tell as many as would hear the following.

    Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)

    Jesus and his disciples preached repentance, righteousness and good works as critical prerequisites for entry into the Kingdom of God

    Why did Jesus die ?

    Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
    (Romans 3:25 KJV)


    Jesus died for the PAST sins of mankind from Adam to the end of mans era. PAST means that a Christian comes to Christ and repents, is baptised, and declares his faith. All past sins are forgiven and the man is now a new creature in Christ.

    Are future sins forgiven? Two passages answer this clearly

    For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. (Hebrews 6:4-8 KJV)

    For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Hebrews 10:26 KJV)


    Paul states in no uncertain terms that future sins [ie after accepting Christ, after receiving the Holy Spirit. after tasting the heavenly gift etc ] is up to the good graces of God. Christ will judge.Paul suggests that some of these Christians are fit to be rejected and burned

    These are not isolated statements about sin and the professed Christian.
  2. 08 Jun '18 11:48
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    The doctrine of Christians of the OSAS type pertaining to sin is that all their sins are forgiven by the blood of Christ and they will site passages to prove that their doctrine is correct. In a nutshell they can sin and be assured that these sins will be forgiven and none of these sins will endanger their entry into the Kingdom of God.

    These passages wh ...[text shortened]... ected and burned


    These are not isolated statements about sin and the professed Christian.[/b]
    Romans 8:34-39
    Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
    Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
    As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
    Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
    For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
    Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Except Rajk the condemnator.
  3. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    08 Jun '18 12:10
    Originally posted by @secondson
    Romans 8:34-39
    Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
    Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
    As it is written, For thy sake we are ki ...[text shortened]... rate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Except Rajk the condemnator.
    Yep .. is that all you can muster? Snide remarks when confronted with the truth from the bible? Why not be a real man and tackle Paul and what he said about sin? If you can... if you cannot I will understand.
  4. 08 Jun '18 15:24
    The problem lies in self proclaimed salvation. Paul says not to do it and that he does not judge himself. Jesus tells us not all who call him lord and expect salvation will receive it.
  5. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    08 Jun '18 16:11
    Originally posted by @eladar
    The problem lies in self proclaimed salvation. Paul says not to do it and that he does not judge himself. Jesus tells us not all who call him lord and expect salvation will receive it.
    Self proclaimed salvation is worthless. God is probably have a good laugh at such Christians.
  6. 08 Jun '18 20:29
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Self proclaimed salvation is worthless. God is probably have a good laugh at such Christians.
    Ya, the God you've characterized in your own image.
  7. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    08 Jun '18 20:35 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @secondson
    Ya, the God you've characterized in your own image.
    Ya .. thats all you got?

    For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (Romans 2:11-12 KJV)
  8. 08 Jun '18 22:54
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Ya .. thats all you got?

    For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (Romans 2:11-12 KJV)
    Ya, well, obviously you're worried about being judged, condemned and thrown into hell.
  9. 08 Jun '18 23:51
    Another one of the more common themes of this, that it appears that you did not touch on at all, Rajk, is that man is incapable of perfection and fulfilling the Law, or fulfilling all that is desired by God.

    Here is the doctrine found concisely stated in Romans 3, including a reference to the Old Testament via Psalms & Ecclesiastes.

    9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:

    “There is no one righteous, not even one;
    11 there is no one who understands;
    there is no one who seeks God.
    12 All have turned away,
    they have together become worthless;
    there is no one who does good,
    not even one.”[b]
    13 “Their throats are open graves;
    their tongues practice deceit.”[c]
    “The poison of vipers is on their lips.”[d]
    14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”[e]
    15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
    16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
    17 and the way of peace they do not know.”[f]
    18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”[g]

    19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

    21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[i] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

    27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
  10. Subscriber Tom Wolsey
    Aficionado of Prawns
    09 Jun '18 01:01 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    Another one of the more common themes of this, that it appears that you did not touch on at all, Rajk, is that [b]man is incapable of perfection and fulfilling the Law, or fulfilling all that is desired by God.

    Here is the doctrine found concisely stated in Romans 3, including a reference to the Old Testament via Psalms & Ecclesiastes.

    [quote ...[text shortened]... h. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.[/quote][/b]
    Great counter, philo. Honestly I don't know how you have the patience to even bother. Rajk's demented, radical interpretation of the bible isn't even worth addressing.

    I can see conversing different viewpoints of the bible when there is some semblance of rationale and genuineness on both parties. But in his case, you might as well be debating the word of God with a drunken, unintelligible crazed lunatic shouting through a bullhorn. Clearly he has deep-seated hatred in his heart for anyone who opposes his viewpoint. He is the very antithesis of anything Christ-like. ( <<< I would have used the more appropriate word, "Christian" here, but Rajk hates Christians with all his heart so it would have only served to fuel his anger and corroborate his radical view)
  11. 09 Jun '18 01:17
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    Great counter, philo. Honestly I don't know how you have the patience to even bother. Rajk's demented, radical interpretation of the bible isn't even worth addressing.

    I can see conversing different viewpoints of the bible when there is some semblance of rationale and genuineness on both parties. But in his case, you might as well be debating the w ...[text shortened]... h all his heart so it would have only served to fuel his anger and corroborate his radical view)
    You mean like dive, fmf, ToO, Suzy or Second Son.
  12. Subscriber Tom Wolsey
    Aficionado of Prawns
    09 Jun '18 01:20
    Originally posted by @eladar
    You mean like dive, fmf, ToO, Suzy or Second Son.
    I note that the backwards spelling of your name means crazy beer. Might you partake?
  13. 09 Jun '18 01:36
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    I note that the backwards spelling of your name means crazy beer. Might you partake?
    No. It is the name of a character from Tolkien's writings. I used it for a Tolkien board back in tje PJ movie days and have kept it.

    The fact is that pretty much everyone who posts here and claims to be a Christian is a nut job.
  14. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    09 Jun '18 01:37
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    Another one of the more common themes of this, that it appears that you did not touch on at all, Rajk, is that [b]man is incapable of perfection and fulfilling the Law, or fulfilling all that is desired by God.

    Here is the doctrine found concisely stated in Romans 3, including a reference to the Old Testament via Psalms & Ecclesiastes.

    [quote ...[text shortened]... h. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.[/quote][/b]
    What does all this mean? Please put it in laymans language.

    I ask because I dont think you understand what all this is about.
    Also you would find nowhere that Jesus said any such thing.

    Jesus instructed his disciples to aim at perfection even as God is perfect
    Jesus said that the fulling of the law is achieved by brotherly love and charity.

    I dont think you understand what you are talking about.
  15. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    09 Jun '18 01:38
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    Great counter, philo. Honestly I don't know how you have the patience to even bother. Rajk's demented, radical interpretation of the bible isn't even worth addressing.

    I can see conversing different viewpoints of the bible when there is some semblance of rationale and genuineness on both parties. But in his case, you might as well be debating the w ...[text shortened]... h all his heart so it would have only served to fuel his anger and corroborate his radical view)
    If you have nothing of value to add to the topic then kindly keep quiet.
    Christians like you have nothing of substance to add to any discussion.