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I think of the example of the Rich young ruler in the bible and Christ said sell all you have and give to the poor and then follow me. I do acknowledge that apparently wealth can get in the way of spirituality or Christ would not have said the things he said concerning the rich of the world.




Manny

Originally posted by Rajk999
Of that list, how many are associated with kind of greed and selfishness for which capitalism is notorious.

Those in your list are the opposite. They all put God first. They all did good works. None of them are guilty of just talking about their faith. They were all doers of good deeds and good works and God blessed them with prosperity.

Matt 6:33 dern Christians and typical Christian Churches are very very far from the teachings of Christ.

Amongst my many, many beefs with Christianity is that it has drifted very far from its beginnings. In a relatively short time, it went from being the religion of those who stood outside the power systems of the time to being the official state religion of the power brokers. Those who, like Divegeester, claim that Christianity is perfectly compatible with the enormous inequalities and injustices present in the world, don't (in my opinion) have the slightest idea what Jesus was talking about. They concentrate solely on the elaborate mythology that grew up around the personhood of Jesus after his death and, for all intents and purposes, completely ignore his emphasis on social justice.

Originally posted by rwingett
Amongst my many, many beefs with Christianity is that it has drifted very far from its beginnings. In a relatively short time, it went from being the religion of those who stood outside the power systems of the time to being the official state religion of the power brokers. Those who, like Divegeester, claim that Christianity is perfectly compatible with th his death and, for all intents and purposes, completely ignore his emphasis on social justice.

There is a very simple reason why modern Christianity has gone astray from the doctrine of Christ. Its becuase the commandments of Christ, which is based on good works is very difficult to follow. They have therefore chosen to preach a corrupted version of what Paul said that FAITH alone saves and all you need to do is to proclaim your faith, donate lots of money to the church and they will have treasure in heaven.

In other words Christ's doctrine = poor churches
Pauls corrupted doctrine = wealthy churches

Originally posted by rwingett
Amongst my many, many beefs with Christianity is that it has drifted very far from its beginnings. In a relatively short time, it went from being the religion of those who stood outside the power systems of the time to being the official state religion of the power brokers. Those who, like Divegeester, claim that Christianity is perfectly compatible with th ...[text shortened]... his death and, for all intents and purposes, completely ignore his emphasis on social justice.

I'm impressed!!!!! Good insight.

Originally posted by Rajk999
There is a very simple reason why modern Christianity has gone astray from the doctrine of Christ. Its becuase the commandments of Christ, which is based on good works is very difficult to follow. They have therefore chosen to preach a corrupted version of what Paul said that FAITH alone saves and all you need to do is to proclaim your faith, donate lots of ...[text shortened]...
In other words Christ's doctrine = poor churches
Pauls corrupted doctrine = wealthy churches

I'm impressed again, good comment to you too.

Originally posted by Rajk999
There is a very simple reason why modern Christianity has gone astray from the doctrine of Christ. Its becuase the commandments of Christ, which is based on good works is very difficult to follow. They have therefore chosen to preach a corrupted version of what Paul said that FAITH alone saves and all you need to do is to proclaim your faith, donate lots of ...[text shortened]...
In other words Christ's doctrine = poor churches
Pauls corrupted doctrine = wealthy churches

I think you are correct. Following the commandments of Jesus, as I see it, would require either the complete upending of society, or the complete abandonment of it. Instead, they worship the personhood of Jesus, while paying lip service to his commandments, as they continue to engage in business as usual. They've fashioned themselves a 'middle class' Jesus that allows them to mouth a few pious words while they continue perpetuating the power structures that breed monstrous injustices and inequalities.

Originally posted by Rajk999
There is a very simple reason why modern Christianity has gone astray from the doctrine of Christ. Its becuase the commandments of Christ, which is based on good works is very difficult to follow. They have therefore chosen to preach a corrupted version of what Paul said that FAITH alone saves and all you need to do is to proclaim your faith, donate lots of ...[text shortened]...
In other words Christ's doctrine = poor churches
Pauls corrupted doctrine = wealthy churches

Paul never said all you need to do is to proclaim your faith, donate lots
of money to the church and they will have treasure in heaven. But once
Christianity was declared the official religion of the Roman empire and
the catholic church in Rome as its head, the leadership gradually allowed
false teaching and corrupt leadership to enter the church. And even the
priest Martin Luther's efforts was not enough to keep these corrupt
leaders in line. Now we have what you see today. I have attended and
studied with many different groups and I have been unable to find one
that did not have some false teaching.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Our religious leaders are not up to scratch then ?

I would say it was a grand beginning, but it didn't last long even during that
time they were scattered and ended up making their way in the world as best
they could following God's leading.
Kelly

Originally posted by RJHinds
Paul never said all you need to do is to proclaim your faith, donate lots
of money to the church and they will have treasure in heaven. But once
Christianity was declared the official religion of the Roman empire and
the catholic church in Rome as its head, the leadership gradually allowed
false teaching and corrupt leadership to enter the church. And ...[text shortened]... any different groups and I have been unable to find one
that did not have some false teaching.

There is a large group of Christians who claim that all you have to do is be born again and accept Christ and you are saved, and you cannot lose your salvation notwithstanding any sins which you subsequently commit. Are you aware of that? They use Pauls writings to prove that they are right. When in fact Christ said something totally different.

As for donating to the Church, ask yourself why are Churches so rich? Clearly they are encouraging their members, sometimes subtly and sometimes openly to donate and support them. I have heard a few Pentecostal churches tell their members that the more they donate the greater the position they will hold in the kingdom.

Originally posted by rwingett
You see? Jesus was a socialist. This passage, and Acts 2:43 - 47, are the reason the Hutterites live communally, with no private property.

Jesus was and is a King, not a socialist.
Kelly

Originally posted by rwingett
The bible is filled with passages against the rich. It's one of the most frequently recurring topics. It's amazing, though, how so many Christians will simply ignore that and pretend that capitalism is somehow compatible with Christianity.

Exactly.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I would say it was a grand beginning, but it didn't last long even during that
time they were scattered and ended up making their way in the world as best
they could following God's leading.
Kelly

I agree with the grand beginning part. However I disagree that the churches are doing their best to follow the lead of the early apostles.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ was definitely in not in favour of the rich so I guess he wont have liked capitalism ..

Matt 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

It isn't that being rich is evil, but living for it, making it the goal in your life.
You can be tested with riches or getting a lot, it is harder staying focused with
a lot than with losing all you have or having nothing. No one is made evil or
good by the amount of money or wealth they have or lack. Where ever your
heart is, that will be what drives you.
Kelly

Originally posted by rwingett
I think you are correct. Following the commandments of Jesus, as I see it, would require either the complete upending of society, or the complete abandonment of it. Instead, they worship the personhood of Jesus, while paying lip service to his commandments, as they continue to engage in business as usual. They've fashioned themselves a 'middle class' Jesus ...[text shortened]... continue perpetuating the power structures that breed monstrous injustices and inequalities.

This^

/agree


"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." -- 1 Timothy 6:10

Originally posted by Rajk999
I agree with the grand beginning part. However I disagree that the churches are doing their best to follow the lead of the early apostles.

I believe it is the Holy Spirit we are to follow, the early apostles are dead.
Kelly