Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
Ok KJ. I'll skip the formalities and dive right in. Annihilationism, a.k.a. "Conditional Immortality" vs. Eternal Torment, a.k.a. "ECT" or Eternal Conscious Torment.
Point by point. I'll start with a verse that some allege supports Conditional Immortality. Then you can refute it and give me a verse that others say supports eternal torment. This ...[text shortened]... h.
Obviously a translation of "torture" or "endless pain without dying" is out of place here.
I'm going to insert a few verses I already used in another thread "Not blowing smoke"
for your review. A point in all scripture discussions is what does the Word say, it is
completely possible to find "a" verse on some topic and build an entire religion on it!
Doing that without the rest of scripture, it could easily be taken out of place to support
something that the rest of scripture doesn't really support.
All scripture needs to be looked at with all other scripture, taking just a single chapter
alone could be bad, a single paragraph alone could be bad, a single word equally bad,
and as some here have done, they have taken words that are not even in scripture, to
replace what is, then turn around argue against the new words instead. So I would
like to start by saying if it isn't the scriptures, why should I agrue against it, it isn't there.
Sticking to what is in scripture I'm using English Standard Version and pulling text online
out of Bible Gateway. All of the verses I am quoting should be from that version, and if I
accidently grabbed another without thinking sorry a head of time, my bad.
One of the things that those who think the suffering of Hell is going to be temporary
argue that the duration will only be as long it takes to destroy something. If all of the
verses that speak to this end said that, I'd go along with that view. The sad thing is I can
only imagine many sinners would like that idea, do what they will and it will be over with
at some point in time when destruction is complete.
Yet, what does the Word say, in Matthew we see two verses that talk about Hell. One
speaks to why it came to be, it was created for the devil and his angles, and eternal
life will last as long as the punishment both are eternal, once started there is no end,
thus the word eternal is used to describe the duration for both.
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
So God is love is another reason why people don't believe that God would send someone
to Hell. I submit to you that because God is love, and God is good, that punishment for
sin and wickedness is the only reaction He could have. A good God loving God who
could see the horror of evil and wickedness taking place and remain indifferent isn't good
The point of God showing us love now, compassion now, can only be done due to His
long suffering. Right now all sinners stand condemned right now, yet God holds back His
judgment giving us time to turn to Him and repent, without His long suffering it would be
over for all of us.
We should not forget we get exposed to horrible sin from time to time and it repulses us,
God doesn't miss a single act, He is aware of every evil word spoken, every wicked
thought, all of our sins are ever before Him. When He lets go against the evil in this
universe, there will be no mercy, and no mercy from the living God who lives forever
and ever, not a good place to be. Yet many of us are storing up for themselves wrath
from an angry God, laughing at Him, making fun of Him. All of this while at the same
time God gives all the air for each breath we take, every sunrise is from Him, all the good
we have comes from Him, but the ungrateful sinners are only piling up crimes against a
Holy God, there will be no excuse, no place to hide, no one to stand between us and
God since Jesus was rejected and at some point even the door to Jesus' grace is going
to be shut.
But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.
he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.