Contradictions in the Quran?

Originally posted by Varqa
I am sorry to disagree, but Mohammad calls Christians and Jews "people of the Book." For Muslims, Bible is the Word of God. The only reason we see differences is because we are looking for them. Our Muslim friend is nitpicking, being overly critical. God's word is the only source of light in this world of darkness. I can not imagine that God will allow those w ...[text shortened]... learned so far and try a new interpretation, one that will lead to unity instead of division.

Mohammad calls Christians and Jews "people of the book"? Where in the Quran does it say this? Could you then please explain these passages from the Quran?

"Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends....He among you who takes them for friends is of them. 5:51

"The Jews...We have cast among them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection. 5:64

"The Jews...and the Christians...Allah fights against them. How perverse are they! 9:30


Perhaps the poetry escapes me?

Compare this to the teachings of Christ.
Matthew 5:43
"You have heard it been said, You will love your neighbor, and hate your enemy. But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitfully use you, and persecute you. That you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven; for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust. For is you love them who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even sinners do the same?

Now thats poetry!!!!!!!!

Of coarse this was written well before the time of Christ, therefore, man born sinless, ie not born from the seed of a man, was a foriegn concept at that time.

You must be careful. I see you using the Old Testament frequently, inserting Christian ideas whereyou wish, but then in this case you say it was before the time of Christ.

The people of the Book will ask thee to bring down for them a book from heaven; but they asked Moses a greater thing than that, for they said, 'Show us God openly;' but the thunderbolt caught them in their injustice.

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 4 - Women)

Then let the people of the gospel judge by that which is revealed therein, for whoso will not judge by what God has revealed, these be the evildoers.
We have revealed to thee the Book in truth verifying what was before it, and preserving it; judge then between them by what God has revealed, and follow not their lusts, turning away from what is given to thee of the truth.

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 5 - The Table)
Say, 'O people of the Book! ye rest on naught until ye stand fast by the law and the gospel, and what is revealed to you from your Lord.' But what has been revealed to thee from thy Lord will of a surety increase many of them in rebellion and misbelief, vex not thyself then for a people who misbelieve.

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 5 - The Table)

The Quran has no problm with the Gospel and the law (The Old Testament). In fact it says that God has preserved it (there are no mistakes in the Bible.) The Problem is with those Christians and Jews who misinterpret thing to their liking.

Originally posted by Varqa
The people of the Book will ask thee to bring down for them a book from heaven; but they asked Moses a greater thing than that, for they said, 'Show us God openly;' but the thunderbolt caught them in their injustice.

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 4 - Women)

Then let the people of the gospel judge by that which is revealed therein, for whoso will ...[text shortened]... e.) The Problem is with those Christians and Jews who misinterpret thing to their liking.

Thank you for helping.

I asked whody several times to read Quran but it seems he don't want to do so.

Through out Quran Christians and Jews are refered two as the prople of the Book, except when it talks about things related to Jews alone or Christians alone.

Originally posted by whodey
Mohammad calls Christians and Jews "people of the book"? Where in the Quran does it say this? Could you then please explain these passages from the Quran?

"Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends....He among you who takes them for friends is of them. 5:51

"The Jews...We have cast among them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection. 5: ...[text shortened]... ou, what reward do you have? Do not even sinners do the same?

Now thats poetry!!!!!!!!

"Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends....He among you who takes them for friends is of them. 5:51

"The Jews...We have cast among them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection. 5:64

"The Jews...and the Christians...Allah fights against them. How perverse are they! 9:30

Can you fill out the dots. Or you got them like that from your source. Do you think this is a good way to read a book?. To cut out words and replace them with dots? Will you be happy If I did the same with the Bible?

You see, you can follow this way , but I hope it will lead you to the truth you want.

Originally posted by whodey
We may as well ask the same of Muslims. I know of several Muslims who do not take their faith seriously. In fact, they do not even attend a Mosque. Does this negate the faith of Islam? I suppose your point is the one with the most true believers is the true religion, no?

Here I didn't ask about the number, I asked you about the ratio.

Yes there are Muslims who don't know Islam. But can you give me the ration.

Any way this point is irrelevant to our subject, talking it out from the post , doesn't make sense.

I have noticed that Christians are a bit hesitant to read other holy books. I have several dear friends, two of whom are priests. I go to Bible studies with them twice a month, but they refuse to even glance at my holy book. I still hope that someday they might.

😉

Originally posted by whodey
I will direct your attention to Hebrews chapter 9 if you are interested in understanding the Christian perspective of Christs blood sacrifice on the cross. It brings together the Old and New Tesatament theology. In verse 14 it refers to Christ as being without spot of blemish. In other words, without sin.

BTW you say that Christ blasphemed several times? How so?

BTW you say that Christ blasphemed several times? How so?

I asked you before do you consider blaspheming a sin or not? I didn't get an answer.

Before I answer your Question , I must say of course I don't belive that Jesus did blaspheming , but it is the Bible that do so:

1- Luk 11:40 Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?

2- Luk 11:44, 45

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.

Then answered one of the lawyers, and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also.

3- Math 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

4- Luk 3:Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

--------------

I think you will say he was not blaspheming here...

Whodey is probably n bed by now. It is late in the US. I should be in be myself, but it is so much fun talking to people from around the world.

A wise man once said:
The shining spark of truth cometh forth only after the clash of differing opinions.

Let's keep our eyes open for that spark, but keep your safety glasses on!

Originally posted by whodey
So tell me, if Adam and Eve did not sin would they have died? It seems to me that this is why they died and is why the Bible said they died. Am I missing something here?

As far as babies go, it seems to me there must be a level of mental awareness to be able to choose sin even if they were born into sin. I don't believe people to be inherently evil, rat ...[text shortened]... d for forgiveness? Would it not be as though he had not sinned at all if God forgave him?

I answered most of these questions before, I don't know if you realy read what I say:

Can you define what you mean by death, is is physical death, or another meaning?

As far as babies go, it seems to me there must be a level of mental awareness to be able to choose sin even if they were born into sin. I don't believe people to be inherently evil, rather, they are prone to sin. There is a difference.

I don't know what to say, I gave several evidences from the Bible that we the sin of Adam as nothing to do with us. And you agree with me that babies don't have sin. So why do you still belive that we born sin? Sin comes from Satan, that is why we sin, because we choose to follow the way of evil, not because we are prone to sin. That is what the Bible say and that is what Quran say. But that is not what Paul say. Got it?

Job 25:4 How then can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him (Christ) the iniquity of us ALL.
Romans 3:23 For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperatly wicked; who can know it?

Do any of these scriptures say that we born with the sin nature. It say we all sinned. And that is true. We all do sins. But I gave you a scripture before I don't remember now it clearly say that no one carry the sin of another person. So we can't be born sin.

I am not really sure why giving you scripture would even make a difference though. You could simply say that the scripture I provided was corrupted, no?

Whody do you remember I ever refused a verse you gave me before because it is corrupted. I never did that, I always discuss what you give me and think about it. Say that now doesn't make any sense.

Ephesians 2;9 which says that we are not saved via works lest any man should boast, rather, we are saved via grace from faith in the sacrifice of Christ.

I know this one very much, and that prove my point. This verse contradict the message of all prophets including Jesus. Do you think this verse is Good. It simply a free permission for man to do all types of sins. Don't you agree?

Could you imagine what heaven would be like with people running around proudly boasting what "good" lives they lived?

pride is a sin. And if we have pride we will not be in heaven. Do you think does this make sense...

do you think if you are in heaven you will think about your earth life, and why? And how you can imagin that GOD will give you the heaven while you don't do anything to gain it? It is injustice to give something to someone without a reason.....

One more point I would like to make. You say that you believe God can forgive us our sins if we ask, no? Why then should it matter if a prophet sinned and then later asked for forgiveness? Would it not be as though he had not sinned at all if God forgave him?

The idea is not the sin, the idea is that they are choosen by GOD to carry the message he want to give to people. And they should be the first one to follow the message. If they don't how can you expect people to accept the message.

If they lie, who can people make sure that they are true prophets?

If they do adultrey how can people follow them when they ask not to do it?

If they kill who can people follow them not to kill?

Yes they can sin, but they can't? There are many people with minor sins. Why GOD choose people with major sins? How do you excpect atheist like many found in this site belive in GOD while they find him not able to choose a respectable people to carry his message.

We know the message of GOD through prophets, how can atheist accept the message from prophets like the one in the Bible?

Again I don't say hide the truth. NO,,,,, what is in the bible is not the truth and can't be. It is a lie written by a man to let people a way from GOD's way. To make people doubt GOD existance.

Originally posted by Varqa
Whodey is probably n bed by now. It is late in the US. I should be in be myself, but it is so much fun talking to people from around the world.

A wise man once said:
The shining spark of truth cometh forth only after the clash of differing opinions.

Let's keep our eyes open for that spark, but keep your safety glasses on!

Yes I know , I live in Canada ,and I should be in Bed too, I just wanted to reply to him because I will not have time tomorrow.

BTW what is your holy book?

I am a Baha'i and my holy book is the Kitab-i-Agdas.
I will be on vacation for a few days. I might still be able to post, but we have to see.

Isn't anybdy interested in this topic anymore? There is a lot to be explored here still.

Originally posted by Varqa
Isn't anybdy interested in this topic anymore? There is a lot to be explored here still.

Well, when one side stands there with their fingers stuffed in there ears singing "na na na na naaaaaa, we can't heeeeeear yooooouuuuu" when you point out the fallacious statements then it makes the debate stupid and pointless.

It is illogical to just stand there and say we can't hear youuuuuu! Let's talk about what it is we don't agree upon. There is only one truth and if we examine the issues up close we will find it.