- Joined
- 01 Oct 04
- Moves
- 12095
1 edit
Originally posted by @kazetnagorraDo you believe a single cell evolved into a fully functional human due to mutations that were not working towards anything without any intelligent direction?
No. Again, mutations don't "work towards" anything. Natural selection only requires mutations to occur and to be able to affect the phenotype (and hence reproductive success).
When a mutation occurs, it is either beneficial for reproductive success, in which case it will spread throughout the population due to the competitive advantage it confers, o ...[text shortened]... ce you understand this mechanism, I am happy to discuss how complex features can result from it.
Originally posted by @thinkofoneAs I said, you have no idea what my complaint is.
If you understood natural selection, you wouldn't make statements such as the following:
<<There needs to be a method (explain this sorting) in how one is pushed aside and
another is embraced. If this isn't clearly defined all you have is a statement of faith
nothing more. >>
If you understood natural selection, you wouldn't ask questions such as ...[text shortened]... here are bad mutations introduced, what about them highlights what is good or bad in the DNA? >>
Originally posted by @kazetnagorraSo natural selection play no part in the formation of the eyes and ears?
No. Again, mutations don't "work towards" anything. Natural selection only requires mutations to occur and to be able to affect the phenotype (and hence reproductive success).
When a mutation occurs, it is either beneficial for reproductive success, in which case it will spread throughout the population due to the competitive advantage it confers, o ...[text shortened]... ce you understand this mechanism, I am happy to discuss how complex features can result from it.
I did not use the words "work towards" and yet you are once again are dismissing this for
that reason.
Originally posted by @suzianneRight now I cannot even get someone to say that mutations actually built the eyes and
Not sure what you're getting at. If you have a 'gotcha' for me, just go ahead and lay it on me.
ears over time. I'd like to hear you at least agree with the point you made that all the
mutations that move on the next generation become part of the process from that point
on, so we can at least have some agreement on terms moving forward.
Originally posted by @kellyjaySeems like it boils down to you thinking that since harmful mutations out number beneficial mutations, the "math" would not work out. If your writing skills weren't so poor, I'd know for sure. If you understood natural selection, you'd understand that the mechanics for selection is based on reproductive success rather than simply the number of harmful vs beneficial mutations. That due to this, the "math" does work out.
As I said, you have no idea what my complaint is.
Originally posted by @thinkofoneHarmful ones do out number the good ones, everyone acknowledges (me included) that
Seems like it boils down to you thinking that since harmful mutations out number beneficial mutations, the "math" would not work out. If your writing skills weren't so poor, I'd know for sure. If you understood natural selection, you'd understand that the mechanics for selection is based on reproductive success rather than simply the number of harmful vs beneficial mutations. That due to this, the "math" does work out.
those bad ones that are so bad they cannot move forward don't. Thereby ending the
damage they could do. Can we agree on that?
Originally posted by @kellyjayIf you have a point, then plainly state it. By all means, get someone to help you to craft a well-formulated response.
Harmful ones do out number the good ones, everyone acknowledges (me included) that
those bad ones that are so bad they cannot move forward don't. Thereby ending the
damage they could do. Can we agree on that?
2 edits
Originally posted by @kellyjayAnd this, KJ, is exactly why this process takes millions of years.
Harmful ones do out number the good ones, everyone acknowledges (me included) that
those bad ones that are so bad they cannot move forward don't. Thereby ending the
damage they could do. Can we agree on that?
A lot of lines eventually DO go 'nowhere'. But since the evolutionary 'angle' is that, yes, mutations that are beneficial DO 'keep going' because they are now part of that organism's base DNA, evolution, in general, does always 'move forward'. It cannot 'move backward' because those organisms that do, die off, usually without reproducing, because natural selection takes care of that. Healthy organisms generally do not choose unhealthy partners to reproduce because the underlying impetus is to pass on one's genes, i.e. 'evolutionary success'.
1 edit
Originally posted by @suzianneAlso worth noting (yes, I'm back in this discussion) that if good mutations were more prolific, that in itself would cause evolutionary problems.
And this, KJ, is exactly why this process takes millions of years.
A lot of lines eventually DO go 'nowhere'. But since the evolutionary 'angle' is that, yes, mutations that are beneficial DO 'keep going' because they are now part of that organism's base DNA, evolution, in general, does always 'move forward'. It cannot 'move backward' because those o ...[text shortened]... reproduce because the underlying impetus is to pass on one's genes, i.e. 'evolutionary success'.
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeYes, I suppose, like prey species having 12 eyes or huge ears.
Also worth noting (yes, I'm back in this discussion) that if good mutations were more prolific, that in itself would cause evolutionary problems.
Originally posted by @kellyjayOf course natural selection played a part in the evolution of eyes and ears, but I'm not in a position to explain how if you don't understand the basic mechanism.
So natural selection play no part in the formation of the eyes and ears?
I did not use the words "work towards" and yet you are once again are dismissing this for
that reason.
Again, natural selection relies on two observations:
1. Mutations in DNA can occur when an organism reproduces.
2. These mutations can affect the phenotype, and hence reproductive success.
If you can point out where things become unclear to you, I can try to explain it. If you accept 1 and 2, then we can move on towards explaining the evolution of complex features in organisms such as eyes and ears.