18 Jan 11
Originally posted by jaywillDismiss Jesus. His words doesn't mean much. The words of StPaul is much better. Right?
To the gloating accusation "Oh, you own something Christian. So you are not following the Bible to not own anything" the apostolic teaching also says:
[b]"But if anyone [in the church] does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." (1 Timothy 5:8)
This apostolic ...[text shortened]... says. We learn what it ALSO says joe. We want a well rounded and normal view of God's will.[/b]
18 Jan 11
Originally posted by 667joeYou wrote: "You can't be a true Christian if you make up your own rules."
Being a true Christian can be quite inconvenient!
Let's say that one denomination accepts blood transfusions, another one thinks it is a mortal sin to accept it. Then one of the two denominations has made up their own rules to obey and live by, and the other one is living by the christian rules.
Q1: Which one of the two is real Christians?
Q2: Who decides?
I think the questions are very concrete and easy to answer. So what is your answers?
18 Jan 11
Originally posted by FabianFnasNaturally, because I am an atheist, I think they are all wrong. My goal is to point out these inconsistancies in hopes of raising doubts.
You wrote: "You can't be a true Christian if you make up your own rules."
Let's say that one denomination accepts blood transfusions, another one thinks it is a mortal sin to accept it. Then one of the two denominations has made up their own rules to obey and live by, and the other one is living by the christian rules.
Q1: Which one of the two is re ...[text shortened]... des?
I think the questions are very concrete and easy to answer. So what is your answers?
18 Jan 11
Originally posted by 667joeDo you agree with me, that everyone calling themselves a True Christian is living by (at least some) rules made up by others than Jesus himself, and therefore certainly is not a True Christian.
Naturally, because I am an atheist, I think they are all wrong. My goal is to point out these inconsistancies in hopes of raising doubts.
There are myriads of denominations calling themselves True Christians, and yet have rules that significantly differ from others.
I would say that there are no True Christians at all. Noone, I repeat: Noone, lives by the rules of Jesus. If they did, they would truly be insane.
18 Jan 11
1 edit
Originally posted by 667joeConcerning any "inconsistancy" about Christians giving away all our possessions so that the Christian owns nothing, you have failed.
Naturally, because I am an atheist, I think they are all wrong. My goal is to point out these inconsistancies in hopes of raising doubts.
18 Jan 11
Originally posted by FabianFnasQuite correct!
Do you agree with me, that everyone calling themselves a True Christian is living by (at least some) rules made up by others than Jesus himself, and therefore certainly is not a True Christian.
There are myriads of denominations calling themselves True Christians, and yet have rules that significantly differ from others.
I would say that there are n ...[text shortened]... l. Noone, I repeat: Noone, lives by the rules of Jesus. If they did, they would truly be insane.
18 Jan 11
Originally posted by jaywillChristians do not use critical thinking skills when it comes to their beliefs so I am not surprised that in your case I have failed. That does not mean, however, that I am wrong!
Concerning any "inconsistancy" about Christians giving away all our possessions so that the Christian owns nothing, you have failed.
18 Jan 11
6 edits
Originally posted by 667joe==================================
Christians do not use critical thinking skills when it comes to their beliefs so I am not surprised that in your case I have failed. That does not mean, however, that I am wrong!
Christians do not use critical thinking skills when it comes to their beliefs so I am not surprised that in your case I have failed. That does not mean, however, that I am wrong!
===============================
Yes. It means that you are wrong in that case. Now let me tell you why you are wrong.
You are wrong because you are not really relying on anything more than a opportunistic, shallow, superfiscial, quote mining of sayings from the Bible. A more serious attempt to get to the bottom of what Jesus said would serve you well if you have that inclination.
Now let me show you how I can argue as you do:
1.) Jesus said if your eye offends you, pluck it out and throw it away. Since there are so many Christians who still have two eyes, they must not be following the Bible.
2.) Jesus said it your hand offends you, cut it off. So since there are Christians with one or two hands left, they also must not be following the Bible. They should all have amputated their limbs long ago as Jesus instructed.
3.) Jesus said "Judge not that you be not judged". Since there are some professional judges who are Christians, they obviously are not following the Bible.
And since some Christian parents "judge" the quality of activity their children engage in, or shows they watch, or even friends they keep, these Christians too, are abviously not following the Bible not to judge.
4.) Jesus said when you pray to not make public show but pray privately in your closet. Now since some Christians pray in prayer meetings of many people, or pray at the dinner table, or pray with or for a friend in his hearing, these Christians obviously are not following the Bible to pray only in private.
5.) Jesus said "You then pray in this way: Our Father who is in the heavens, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come .... etc. etc."
Since Christians do not always pray with these exact words as Jesus instructed, these Christians obviously are not following the Bible.
And I could go on to demonstrate that there are no Christians on the earth following the Bible. Feel vindicated, all you atheists.
Now in this above parody I have made no serious attempt to consider the wisdom of the Bible in good context. I have presented an intertaining lampoon, maybe scored some cheap points which might impress a junior highschool Sunday School kid.
But I don't think even a secular college class on Ethics could accept logic like this as impressive. So I said you failed to demonstrate a propertiless Christian is the only valid Bible following Christian.
I'm sorry. When you come up with an argument I think is good, I may not agree with you. But I'll admit that you have there a stronger case. But your cheap shots I will point out as failed arguments.
18 Jan 11
Originally posted by jaywillYou have proven my point perfectly by stating Christians don't do as Jesus says! Yet you have the audacity to suggest I am wrong. Amazing!
[b]==================================
Christians do not use critical thinking skills when it comes to their beliefs so I am not surprised that in your case I have failed. That does not mean, however, that I am wrong!
===============================
Yes. It means that you are wrong in that case. Now let me tell you why you are wrong.
...[text shortened]... have there a stronger case. But your cheap shots I will point out as failed arguments.[/b]
18 Jan 11
1 edit
Originally posted by 667joe====================================
You have proven my point perfectly by stating Christians don't do as Jesus says! Yet you have the audacity to suggest I am wrong. Amazing!
You have proven my point perfectly by stating Christians don't do as Jesus says! Yet you have the audacity to suggest I am wrong. Amazing!
====================================
Okay. Let's say no Christian on earth has ever done as Jesus said.
Does that prove atheism ?
18 Jan 11
Originally posted by jaywillOfcourse not. But it does prove Christians don't have their act together.
[b]====================================
You have proven my point perfectly by stating Christians don't do as Jesus says! Yet you have the audacity to suggest I am wrong. Amazing!
====================================
Okay. Let's say no Christian on earth has ever done as Jesus said.
Does that prove atheism ?[/b]
18 Jan 11
2 edits
Originally posted by 667joe==================================
Ofcourse not. But it does prove Christians don't have their act together.
Of course not. But it does prove Christians don't have their act together.
================================
I agree with you that it does not prove that God does not exist.
When Jesus was asked specifically about the work of God He replied what was the basic work of God:
"Then they said to Him, What shall we do that we may work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe into Him whom He has sent." (John 6:28,29)
I believe that the Father sent the Son, Jesus Christ. You do not believe that God even exists.
According to what Jesus taught, which of us is doing "the work of God," as Christ defined that work in John 6:29 ?
If I believe in Christ am I doing what Jesus said ?