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    19 Aug '16 10:257 edits
    In the wake of my exchanges with sonship trying to unequivocally establish if belief in the trinity was a dependency for salvation, I thought I'd set up a "catch-all" thread to see if anyone wanted to pitch up with their particular belief structure and see if they can convince the forum they have a case.

    I doubt many will contribute but if you want to get involved then let's all agree up-front that we may not change one another's beliefs - but maybe it's worth discussing it anyway...it is "salvation" after all, so we should all have an opinion on what are the entry level beliefs or actions.

    Here are some starters for 10, with my top-line opinion on each. None of these is making a judgment on whether the actual "thing" is doctrinal-correct, it's about whether or not the belief in it, is essential for salvation:

    - Belief in the deity of Christ - essential
    - Repentance - essential
    - Faith in the atoning value of the blood of Christ - essential
    - Confession of Christ - essential
    - Spiritual regeneration - essential [actually I'm not 100% on this - depends on definition of "salvation"]
    - Belief in OSAS or loss of salvation - not essential
    - Belief that continued salvation is works dependent - not essential
    - Baptism by water sprinkling - not essential
    - Baptism by full immersion in water - not essential
    - Membership of and adherence to a particular religious group (e.g. JWs or Mormons) - not essential
    - Belief in a particular version of the godhead construct (e.g. trinity) - not essential
    - Belief in hell (eternal or otherwise) - not essential according to some here, despite being "saved", I will still burn in hell for eternity for not believing in this
    - Belief in 6 day creation - not essential
    - Rejection of evolution - not essential
    - Belief in the teaching of and the manifestations of the baptism in the holy spirit - not essential

    In my opinion, if an enquirer comes to you and asked these questions a Christian needs to be able to give an unequivocal response.

    Opinions, casual thoughts, disagreement...all welcome.
  2. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    19 Aug '16 10:43
    Originally posted by divegeester
    In the wake of my exchanges with sonship trying to unequivocally establish if belief in the trinity was a dependency for salvation, I thought I'd set up a "catch-all" thread to see if anyone wanted to pitch up with their particular belief structure and see if they can convince the forum they have a case.

    I doubt many will contribute but if you want t ...[text shortened]... able to give an unequivocal response.

    Opinions, casual thoughts, disagreement...all welcome.
    Do you think the thief on the cross checked any of these boxes? If so which ones?
  3. Joined
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    19 Aug '16 10:571 edit
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    Do you think the thief on the cross checked any of these boxes? If so which ones?
    That is a great question and I love the account of the thief on the cross. I think he had faith in the deity of Christ and a spirit of repentance.

    edit: it really goes to show how simple the gospel can be 🙂
  4. Standard memberRajk999
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    19 Aug '16 11:061 edit
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    Do you think the thief on the cross checked any of these boxes? If so which ones?
    The thief on the cross served Christ and obeyed His commandments from the time he accepted Christ right until the day of his death.

    Jesus expects the same from all His followers and will judge all people with that criteria.
  5. Standard memberRajk999
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    19 Aug '16 11:10
    Originally posted by divegeester
    In the wake of my exchanges with sonship trying to unequivocally establish if belief in the trinity was a dependency for salvation, I thought I'd set up a "catch-all" thread to see if anyone wanted to pitch up with their particular belief structure and see if they can convince the forum they have a case.

    I doubt many will contribute but if you want t ...[text shortened]... able to give an unequivocal response.

    Opinions, casual thoughts, disagreement...all welcome.
    Here are the checkboxes for eternal life:

    - I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat:
    - I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink:
    - was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    - Naked, and ye clothed me:
    - I was sick, and ye visited me:
    - I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

    So says Christ.
  6. Joined
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    19 Aug '16 12:31
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Here are the checkboxes for eternal life:

    - I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat:
    - I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink:
    - was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    - Naked, and ye clothed me:
    - I was sick, and ye visited me:
    - I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

    So says Christ.
    Nice.

    Do you subscribe this access to salvation equally for all, or just for "Christians"?
  7. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    19 Aug '16 13:07
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Here are the checkboxes for eternal life:

    - I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat:
    - I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink:
    - was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    - Naked, and ye clothed me:
    - I was sick, and ye visited me:
    - I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

    So says Christ.
    So by this criteria the thief on the cross didn't make the cut?
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    19 Aug '16 14:11
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    So by this criteria the thief on the cross didn't make the cut?
    If you remember certain things about me it will save you a lot of wasted time. I dont discuss my personal life neither will I ask about yours. These questions about specific people and their works etc, which you ask to try to trap me is not going to work as the answer is always that Jesus will judge people. Entry into the Kingdom has requirements and only Jesus knows the heart of man.
  9. Standard memberRajk999
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    19 Aug '16 14:11
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Nice.

    Do you subscribe this access to salvation equally for all, or just for "Christians"?
    Equally for all is my opinion.
  10. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    19 Aug '16 14:25
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    If you remember certain things about me it will save you a lot of wasted time. I dont discuss my personal life neither will I ask about yours. These questions about specific people and their works etc, which you ask to try to trap me is not going to work as the answer is always that Jesus will judge people. Entry into the Kingdom has requirements and only Jesus knows the heart of man.
    Wow why so defensive? When did I ask you questions about your personal life?
  11. Standard memberRajk999
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    19 Aug '16 14:37
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    Wow why so defensive? When did I ask you questions about your personal life?
    You asked specific questions about peoples works and righteousness and if these specific people will be in the Kingdom. These are pointless questions .. and you keep doing it.

    I you want to discuss the doctrine of Christ and the Aposltes Im in but foolish questions and repeating these over and over is a turn off.
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    19 Aug '16 14:50
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Equally for all is my opinion.
    Scenario:
    Could someone who had heard the gospel at some point, but let's say they ignored it, they were not anti, just passive about it, but they were passionate about feeding the starving, opened their door to the homeless, clothed the poor in their area and visited the sick and those in prison etc.

    Would they be seen as righteous and eligible for salvation?
  13. Standard memberRajk999
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    19 Aug '16 15:07
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Scenario:
    Could someone who had heard the gospel at some point, but let's say they ignored it, they were not anti, just passive about it, but they were passionate about feeding the starving, opened their door to the homeless, clothed the poor in their area and visited the sick and those in prison etc.

    Would they be seen as righteous and eligible for salvation?
    Specific questions pertaining to whether specific people will be saved are beyond me. Christ will judge all people ... like I keep saying.

    Anyhow the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ is His teachings and His commandments, chief of which are these same things you spoke of ... "..passionate about feeding the starving, opened their door to the homeless, clothed the poor in their area and visited the sick and those in prison etc. .

    Someone who does these things is NOT IGNORING the Gospel. They are living the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus lives in them.

    Seems to me that according to Jesus himself such a person will be called righteous and will be welcomed into the Kingdom of God.
  14. SubscriberFMF
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    19 Aug '16 15:07
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    Do you think the thief on the cross checked any of these boxes? If so which ones?
    What did the four Gospels say about "the thief"?
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    19 Aug '16 15:16
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Specific questions pertaining to whether specific people will be saved are beyond me. Christ will judge all people ... like I keep saying.

    Anyhow the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ is His teachings and His commandments, chief of which are these same things you spoke of ... [i]"..passionate about feeding the starving, opened their door to the homeless, clothed the ...[text shortened]... sus himself such a person will be called righteous and will be welcomed into the Kingdom of God.
    OK.

    Are there any other dependencies in my list that you would add to yours?
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