Dependencies for 'Chrisitan' salvation

Originally posted by FMF
Taunting Jesus about "his kingdom" as he was being put to death for claiming he was God is mockery. Mark and Matthew saw it for what it was. Only your agenda is stopping you from seeing it too.

You want to see it as a taunt. I believe it wasn't. I believe he was sincere and repentant.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If you want to believe the penitent thief was mocking Jesus when he reprimanded the the other thief you are welcome to do so. I don't. It is evident that he was pleading for mercy.

Why would one man being executed plead for mercy from another man being executed? What are you claiming was the substance of the thief's "faith"? The scenario is ludicrous.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
You want to see it as a taunt. I believe it wasn't. I believe he was sincere and repentant.

So you reject the accounts in the Gospels of Mark and Matthew?

Originally posted by FMF
Why would one man being executed plead for mercy from another man being executed? What are you claiming was the substance of the thief's "faith"? The scenario is ludicrous.

It clearly demonstrates that when two people are confronted with the person of Jesus Christ one person may mock and jeer his deity and the other could accept accept him for who he really is, realize their sinfulness and the perfection of Christ, repent, ask for mercy and be saved and the other person will harden their heart, mock and remain lost.

Originally posted by FMF
So you reject the accounts in the Gospels of Mark and Matthew?

No they clearly don't say that one of the thieves didn't repent at the end. Luke's account clearly shows this.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Ah ok now I get you. Thanks for clearing up your agenda.

My agenda is an intellectual/integrity one and it is for me not to be credulous or unthinking in the face of the evidence on offer, such as it is. Your agenda is a more emotional one and is to crowbar your ideology into what the text says, specifically what Luke actually depicts in light of what Mark and Matthew tell us.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
No they clearly don't say that one of the thieves didn't repent at the end. Luke's account clearly shows this.

Luke's account clearly depicts the mockery that Mark and Matthew tell us about.

Originally posted by FMF
Luke's account clearly depicts the mockery that Mark and Matthew tell us about.

Yes and clearly portrays the penitent thief.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
No they clearly don't say that one of the thieves didn't repent at the end.

This has got to be one of the most clutching-at-straws examples of exegesis ever.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Yes and clearly portrays the penitent thief.

A dying criminal asking for forgiveness from a blasphemer who is bleeding out and slowly suffocating at the same public execution? Clearly mockery, as two other Gospels attest. But you decribe it as "faith"? Your agenda has you all contorted.

Originally posted by FMF
This has got to be one of the most clutching-at-straws examples of exegesis ever.

Says the guy who doesn't even believe the Bible to be the word of God, and who thinks he can tell people who do believe how they are supposed to interpret the scriptures. You are the one clutching at straws but then again too blind to see it.

Originally posted by FMF
A dying criminal asking for forgiveness from a blasphemer who is bleeding out and slowly suffocating at the same public execution? Clearly mockery, as two other Gospels attest. But you decribe it as "faith"? Your agenda has you all contorted.

Clearly you share the sentiments of the crowds that crucified him. Jesus was praying for you when he said, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Says the guy who doesn't even believe the Bible to be the word of God, and who thinks he can tell people who do believe how they are supposed to interpret the scriptures. You are the one clutching at straws but then again too blind to see it.

All that is going on here is that you are being shown that what you are claiming about the "the thief" is not something that you can substantiate.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Clearly you share the sentiments of the crowds that crucified him.

I wouldn't have supported the execution of Jesus. What makes you think i would have?

Originally posted by FMF
All that is going on here is that you are being shown that what you are claiming about the "the thief" is not something that you can substantiate.

Obviously not according to the opinion of one who clearly lacks belief and judgement.