Dependencies for 'Chrisitan' salvation

Originally posted by divegeester
OK.

Are there any other dependencies in my list that you would add to yours?

I dont not consider that all people are equal in the eyes of God as far as His Kingdom is concerned.

Some are destined to be Christian saints who will rule with Christ. Even among saints there will be categories or levels. Some will be in the Kingdom and be ordinary citizens, not in any ruling capacity. These might be those we argue about who do not know any law but who still have lived with their conscience as their guide.

Christ died so that all people can have a chance to live with him. The main criteria is righteous living as defined by Christ.

Saints of God are called upon to know more and be more and to know of Christ and the teachings of the Bible ... much like your list in the opening post.

Your list is for Christian saints.
The list for others who I believe will be in the Kingdom is very short indeed.

Maybe I did not address your question .. so be more specific if you can.

Originally posted by FMF
What did the four Gospels say about "the thief"?

If you have something to say why don't you say it?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Specific questions pertaining to whether specific people will be saved are beyond me. Christ will judge all people ... like I keep saying.

Anyhow the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ is His teachings and His commandments, chief of which are these same things you spoke of ... [i]"..passionate about feeding the starving, opened their door to the homeless, clothed the ...[text shortened]... sus himself such a person will be called righteous and will be welcomed into the Kingdom of God.

So Jesus can live in an atheist that denies his deity and existence?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If you have something to say why don't you say it?

He is saying that there is no such thing as 'thief on the cross' in the Bible.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So Jesus can live in an atheist that denies his deity and existence?

Jesus / God lives in all those who keep His commandments:

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Originally posted by Rajk999
He is saying that there is no such thing as 'thief on the cross' in the Bible.

He obviously knows the Bible well then.

FMF: What did the four Gospels say about "the thief"?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If you have something to say why don't you say it?

I don't think you have anything convincing to say about "the thief" although you keep mentioning him. Yesterday you seemed surprised by the question because you obviously assumed all four Gospels tell the same story when, in fact, they don't.

I find it interesting that something which is so clearly an important ideological point (for you) relies so heavily on extrapolating something you 'need' it to say from such a slight sliver of evidence which is not even corroborated by the other Gospels.

To me, this sounds like a bit of typical cherry picking, as is so often the case - and perhaps even you know it comes across as such. That might explain your evasiveness over the last couple of days and your refusal, just now, yet again, to answer such a straight forward inquiry about something you were otherwise quite happy to bandy about.

So, I ask you again: What did the Gospels say about "the thief"?

Originally posted by FMF
I don't think you have anything convincing to say about "the thief" although you keep mentioning him. Yesterday you seemed surprised by the question because you obviously assumed all four Gospels tell the same story when they don't.

I find it interesting that something which is so clearly an important ideological point (for you) relies on extrapolating somet ...[text shortened]... s over the last couple of days. So, I ask you again: What did the Gospels say about "the thief"?

So you think Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all had to witness what happened at the crucifixion (or had to write about it) for it to have happened?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So you think Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all had to witness what happened at the crucifixion (or had to write about it) for it to have happened?

The question I'm putting to you, because it is you who keeps mentioning "the thief", is what do those four Gospels say about him?

Originally posted by FMF
The question I'm putting to you, because it is you who keeps mentioning "the thief", is what do those four Gospels say about him?

Are you too lazy to look it up yourself? I'm guessing you already know what they have to say or don't you?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Are you too lazy to look it up yourself? I'm guessing you already know what they have to say or don't you?

You could scarcely be more evasive than you are being over this.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I dont not consider that all people are equal in the eyes of God as far as His Kingdom is concerned.

Some are destined to be Christian saints who will rule with Christ. Even among saints there will be categories or levels. Some will be in the Kingdom and be ordinary citizens, not in any ruling capacity. These might be those we argue about who do not know ...[text shortened]... s very short indeed.

Maybe I did not address your question .. so be more specific if you can.

I don't disagree with some of you related points here, but we can discuss those separately, e.g. Not all salvees** being equal.

My question is very clear, which if any, of the points in the list in my OP do you feel are dependencies for salvation?

Second and subsequent question: are there any others, other than those in your list and those in mine?

Unequivocation would be appreciated, thanks.

**i just made that word up 😀

Polite request:

Can respondents please try their hardest to be absolutely clear in what they do or not believe in regard to the OP. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, goes without saying, but much of the chasing down I do of posters here [aka "bullying"] occurs because of evasiveness. I have been direct about what I believe and am open to conflict and disagreement. I've also been clear on one item in my OP that I'm not sure about.

Thanks all.

Originally posted by FMF
You could scarcely be more evasive than you are being over this.

And you could scarcely be more vague about what point you are actually trying to make. Do you believe that the account of the 'thief on the cross' is inacurate or fictional? Make your point if you have one.

Originally posted by divegeester
I don't disagree with some of you related points here, but we can discuss those separately, e.g. Not all salvees** being equal.

My question is very clear, which if any, of the points in the list in my OP do you feel are dependencies for salvation?

Second and subsequent question: are there any others, other than those in your list and those in mine?

Unequivocation would be appreciated, thanks.

**i just made that word up 😀

For Christian saints I would say:

Y - Belief in the deity of Christ - essential
Y - Repentance - essential
Y - Faith in the atoning value of the blood of Christ - essential
Y - Confession of Christ - essential
Y but this comes after - Spiritual regeneration - essential [actually I'm not 100% on this - depends on definition of "salvation"]
N - Belief in OSAS or loss of salvation - not essential
Y - Belief that continued salvation is works dependent - not essential
N - Baptism by water sprinkling - not essential
Y - Baptism by full immersion in water - not essential
N - Membership of and adherence to a particular religious group (e.g. JWs or Mormons) - not essential
N - Belief in a particular version of the godhead construct (e.g. trinity) - not essential
N - Belief in hell (eternal or otherwise) - not essential according to some here, despite being "saved", I will still burn in hell for eternity for not believing in this
N - Belief in 6 day creation - not essential
N - Rejection of evolution - not essential
N - Belief in the teaching of and the manifestations of the baptism in the holy spirit - not essential

I would add righteous living and good works consistent with the teachings of Christ - Essential.