Dependencies for 'Chrisitan' salvation

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Bible scholars agree with my interpretation.

And yet your brush with Bible scholars has left you unable to make your case and, instead, you fall back on referring to people who are not here on this debate and discussion forum to make their case. 😉

Originally posted by FMF
Where do Mark and Matthew claim to be describing "the initial mocking"? You're making stuff up again. You are ignoring the fact that those Gospels describe the incident as thieves mocking Jesus. Luke provides the dialogue that demonstrates what Mark and Matthew are referring to. What "faith" are you referring to? What "penitence" are you referring to?

I am referring to the faith and penitence that got one of the thieves into paradise, which is clear for everyone but you to see. If as you say both were mocking Jesus till the end, why was one of them saved and the other one not?

Originally posted by FMF
And yet your brush with Bible scholars has left you unable to make your case and, instead, you fall back on referring to people who are not here on this debate and discussion forum to make their case. 😉

And all you have is your own interpretation which makes no sense. 🙂

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
I am referring to the faith and penitence that got one of the thieves into paradise, which is clear for everyone but you to see. If as you say both were mocking Jesus till the end, why was one of them saved and the other one not?

What "faith and penitence" are you talking about? All I see is a dying man saying to Jesus "remember me when you come in your kingdom". You surely cannot believe that someone merely has to pay lip service in their dying desperation in this way in order to become immortal? Jesus gave as good as he got in the banter in those final moments. Indeed, Mark, Matthew and John chose not to claim that Jesus said anything in the face of the mockery.

Originally posted by FMF
What "faith and penitence" are you talking about? All I see is a dying man saying to Jesus "remember me when you come in your kingdom". You surely cannot believe that someone merely has to pay lip service in this way in order to become immortal? Jesus gave as good as he got in the banter in those final moments. Indeed, Mark, Matthew and John chose not to claim that Jesus said anything in the face of the mockery.

Nice dodge. I asked you a question. If as you say both were mocking Jesus till the end, why was one of them saved and the other one not?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Nice dodge. I asked you a question. If as you say both were mocking Jesus till the end, why was one of them saved and the other one not?

Well, if I may adopt your superstitious framework for a moment, like I said, Jesus was perhaps demonstrating that He can forgive anyone He wants to and he can do this regardless of the beliefs they profess or claim to profess - and that He can do so even if they clearly have not been His followers or even if those people mock him.

Seeing as the evidence of the three Gospel accounts points to Jesus being mocked, and provides no credible evidence of the thief's "faith" or "penitence" (certainly nothing that a present day Christian could learn anything from), one can presume that ~ if one subscribes to the notion that there is "salvation" and that Jesus can grant it ~ He could see how the thief had lived his life and saw enough to "save" him despite his mockery of Jesus in his dying moments.

Originally posted by FMF
Well, if I may adopt your superstitious framework for a moment, like I said, Jesus was perhaps demonstrating that He can forgive anyone He wants to and he can do this regardless of the beliefs they profess or claim to profess - and that He can do so even if they clearly have not been His followers or even if those people mock him.

Seeing as the evidence of t ...[text shortened]... d lived his life and saw enough to "save" him despite his mockery of Jesus in his dying moments.

Is this notion of yours (about salvation) supported by other parts of scripture or did you just make that up ?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
And all you have is your own interpretation which makes no sense. 🙂

Do you seriously believe that you can live a whole life that simply does not attempt to live up to any moral standards or a life involving no effort to engage in morally sound actions (like, for example, aspiring to carry out the commandments Jesus laid out) and then, a few seconds before you die, you can say something like "Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingdom" and you will gain immortality?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Is this notion of yours (about salvation) supported by other parts of scripture or did you just make that up ?

What notion?

Originally posted by FMF
Do you seriously believe that you can live a whole life that simply does not attempt to live up to any moral standards or a life involving no effort to engage in morally sound actions (like, for example, aspiring to carry out the commandments Jesus laid out) and then, a few seconds before you die, you can say something like "Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingdom" and you will gain immortality?

Someone who has never heard of Jesus and his teachings (like the thief on the cross) who are on their deathbed, if someone shares the gospel of Christ with them and they truly repent and believe do you think Christ will turn them away?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Someone who has never heard of Jesus and his teachings (like the thief on the cross) who are on their deathbed, if someone shares the gospel of Christ with them and they truly repent and believe do you think Christ will turn them away?

You have not answered my question.

Originally posted by FMF
What notion?

Your notion that unbelievers can be saved if they are confronted with the person of Christ and they mock him till the end.

Originally posted by FMF
You have not answered my question.

The bible says he that calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Do you dispute this scripture?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
... if someone shares the gospel of Christ with them and they truly repent and believe do you think Christ will turn them away?

What evidence do you have that the thief did "truly repent'? Matthew and Mark described the incident as mockery.

Originally posted by FMF
What evidence do you have that the thief did "truly repent'? Matthew and Mark described the incident as mockery.

The evidence is in Luke, but I cannot make you see that when you clearly refuse to do so.