Depressed Again

Originally posted by nook7
Fishy Vishy is the classic example of what happens when you spend too long bending bannanas.

Yeah, good point. I'm thankful I got out early ...

Originally posted by amannion
Yeah, good point. I'm thankful I got out early ...

You mean you turned against the tide and headed back south?

Originally posted by lausey
I get the impression that the atheist fully understands the theist's point of view, and figure this isn't a sensible position to take.

The theist cannot comprehend the atheists point of view, and in light of this, does not figure this is a sensible position to take.

Each side seems to claim that the other side are the ones that cannot comprehend their point of view.

Could it be that I am biased?

yes its most likely, however its simply a matter of what is plausible to us, for example to the theist its not only implausible but also illogical and unreasonable to explain life and its diversity in purely materialistic terms, what is more these materialistic answers are not very satisfying for who can deny that we are human and have a spirituality, to the atheist it seems that the theist is given to delusion, that terms such as 'faith', are without foundation (and in many cases they really are without foundation) and that there are many incongruities, like why there is suffering etc etc. Thus knowledge and understanding may exist, but they may not be handmaidens.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes its most likely, however its simply a matter of what is plausible to us, for example to the theist its not only implausible but also illogical and unreasonable to explain life and its diversity in purely materialistic terms, what is more these materialistic answers are not very satisfying for who can deny that we are human and have a spirituality ...[text shortened]... uffering etc etc. Thus knowledge and understanding may exist, but they may not be handmaidens.

I think most theists position can be summed up by the gripping courtroom finale in Rob Reiners 1992 film A Few Good Men between Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson.

JN - "You want answers?"

TC - "I think i'm entitled to them."

JN - "You want answers?"

TC - "I WANT THE TRUTH!!!!"

JN - "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!"

That's the bottom line here Rob. It's not implausable and illogical to explain life, and especially it's diverisification in purely materialistic terms. Evolution by natural selection is a scientific fact, as secure as that of the Earth orbits the Sun. You just and many others just can't handle that thought.

This line of thinking is just an extension of mankinds huge ego complex.

'But surely this 14.7 billion year old infinite universe is all about us? Isn't it?'

Originally posted by Proper Knob
I think most theists position can be summed up by the gripping courtroom finale in Rob Reiners 1992 film A Few Good Men between Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson.

JN - "You want answers?"

TC - "I think i'm entitled to them."

JN - "You want answers?"

TC - "I WANT THE TRUTH!!!!"

JN - "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!"

That's the bott this 14.7 billion year old infinite universe is all about us? Isn't it?'[/i]

i dispute your terms and no dear Noobster i will not get into another pointless debate, you know fine and well the evolutionary hypothesis is just that, a hypothesis, to term it a fact is both delusional and irresponsible. It has contributed to some of humankinds worst atrocities and resulted in a moral degradation. Materialism fails for it cannot and does not answer even basic fundamental questions, we are human and have a spirituality and your materialism is found wanting at every level! You have made a God of science dear Noobster, you worship in temples of reason and logic, yet there is fallacy and dogma! indeed i state that you are even more religious than me in your own way.

Originally posted by amannion
Yeah, that's depressing.
Although it is Queensland and here in Oz, people from that state are often recognised as being a bit strange. (And I say that having been born there.)

Yeah I agree Queenslanders are nuts. But life is a paradox so you get the best with the worst up here.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i dispute your terms and no dear Noobster i will not get into another pointless debate, you know fine and well the evolutionary hypothesis is just that, a hypothesis, to term it a fact is both delusional and irresponsible. It has contributed to some of humankinds worst atrocities and resulted in a moral degradation. Materialism fails for it cannot a ...[text shortened]... e is fallacy and dogma! indeed i state that you are even more religious than me in your own way.

you know fine and well the evolutionary hypothesis is just that, a hypothesis.

With 150yrs of study from numerous scientific fields to back it up. I'm afraid it is a scientific fact Rob, and you just 'can't handle the truth', and it's certainly not irresponsible to claim as such. You're begining to sound like Vishy, the lunatic of the forum, i like to think you're better than that.

You have made a God of science dear Noobster, you worship in temples of reason and logic, yet there is fallacy and dogma.

No, i just accept a scientific fact. Which is taught at every University around the world. If this hypothesis is such a fallacy and dogma as you insist, why is it stil around? Why has it not been replaced by your creation gibberish?

indeed i state that you are even more religious than me in your own way.

Really? Would you care to elaborate?!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i dispute your terms and no dear Noobster i will not get into another pointless debate, you know fine and well the evolutionary hypothesis is just that, a hypothesis, to term it a fact is both delusional and irresponsible.

Actually it has been given the status "Theory" since the very early days. Essentially it is a confirmed hypothesis.

It has contributed to some of humankinds worst atrocities and resulted in a moral degradation.
And how is that relevant? Should we bury our heads in the sand because too much knowledge is a dangerous thing? I think you will find that almost all armies since the beginning of time have used some form of mathematics or science or other learning. Do we therefore discard this learning because it has been used for nefarious purposes?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]you know fine and well the evolutionary hypothesis is just that, a hypothesis.

With 150yrs of study from numerous scientific fields to back it up. I'm afraid it is a scientific fact Rob, and you just 'can't handle the truth', and it's certainly not irresponsible to claim as such. You're begining to sound like Vishy, the lunatic of the forum, i even more religious than me in your own way.[/b]

Really? Would you care to elaborate?![/b]

One could of course go through the entire basis from abiogenesis right through to RNA world theory, as i stated, i shall not be drawn into a fruitless argument about the inadequacies of your religion deer Noobster, materialism as far as i am concerned is a virus that has permeated the western world and led more people into ignorance than the meanest and basest medieval church! the sooner it is stamped out the better. You may have limited your search to 'mindless matter', we perceive a different reality which we equate with intelligence and design! As for Vishy, is he not also a man like me, like you, no better, no worse? yes he needs to learn patience and tolerance, to be open minded, but i am sure there are things you and i need to sort out in our personalities as well.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Actually it has been given the status "Theory" since the very early days. Essentially it is a confirmed hypothesis.

[b]It has contributed to some of humankinds worst atrocities and resulted in a moral degradation.
And how is that relevant? Should we bury our heads in the sand because too much knowledge is a dangerous thing? I think you will find t ...[text shortened]... arning. Do we therefore discard this learning because it has been used for nefarious purposes?[/b]

it is a hypothesis and remains so, unsubstantiated and non falsifiable, get over it, and it is relevant because i decided to make it relevant!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
it is a hypothesis and remains so, unsubstantiated and non falsifiable, get over it, and it is relevant because i decided to make it relevant!

I will not 'get over it' because I know you are wrong. I am curious though that you claim evolution to be non-falsifiable. I would think there would be a large number of things that would falsify large parts of the Theory of Evolution if they could be proven to be true. Of course they would tend to raise more questions as we would then need a new theory to explain the new data.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I will not 'get over it' because I know you are wrong. I am curious though that you claim evolution to be non-falsifiable. I would think there would be a large number of things that would falsify large parts of the Theory of Evolution if they could be proven to be true. Of course they would tend to raise more questions as we would then need a new theory to explain the new data.

which is of course what happens as in the invention of the theory of punctuated equilibrium to try to address the inadequacies of the fossil record, as in the assertion of a reducing [no free oxygen] in early atmosphere, after all, the data must be made to support the hypothesis, mustn't it. You will get over it whether you like it or not. Believe what you want, we shall not limit our search for truth to mindless matter, no nevah! now perhaps you have something with spirituality that you would like to discuss rather than non spirituality?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
One could of course go through the entire basis from abiogenesis right through to RNA world theory, as i stated, i shall not be drawn into a fruitless argument about the inadequacies of your religion deer Noobster, materialism as far as i am concerned is a virus that has permeated the western world and led more people into ignorance than the meanest ...[text shortened]... inded, but i am sure there are things you and i need to sort out in our personalities as well.

i shall not be drawn into a fruitless argument about the inadequacies of your religion deer Noobster.

Hang on a minute. You make some bizarre claim that because i accept evolutionary theory i am somehow more religious than you and now you refuse to back it up? Come one, man up.

Basically, with regards to evolution you have nothing. That's why you don't enter into a debate, just like in my Evolution of Cetaceans' thread. You were quick to make an off hand remark, but when asked to come and debate the topic your only remark was 'isn't it strange?' before you disappeared, claiming you were too drained from debating JW doctrine with other forum members. Even though i started the thread 3 days before the blood transfusion debate started.

You may have limited your search to 'mindless matter', we perceive a different reality which we equate with intelligence and design.

I have limited my search to the truth, as we understand it from the evidence. As i pointed out above, you can't handle the truth and have dressed it all up in design and intelligence to make your self feel better. But it is nothing but a delusional charade.

As for Vishy, is he not also a man like me, like you, no better, no worse?

Nope. He's worse.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
which is of course what happens as in the invention of the theory of punctuated equilibrium to try to address the inadequacies of the fossil record, as in the assertion of a reducing [no free oxygen] in early atmosphere, after all, the data must be made to support the hypothesis, mustn't it. You will get over it whether you like it or not. Believe ...[text shortened]... u have something with spirituality that you would like to discuss rather than non spirituality?

If you actually knew anything about evolutionary theory, instead of just regurgitating the same old tired arguments, you would know that evolutionary theory doesn't need fossils. The evidence is written in the DNA of every living organism there is today.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
If you actually knew anything about evolutionary theory, instead of just regurgitating the same old tired arguments, you would know that evolutionary theory doesn't need fossils. The evidence is written in the DNA of every living organism there is today.

well well how very convenient, lets dismiss with millions of years of solid tangible rock embedded evidence, or in your case lack of, and hey, it doesn't fit our religious texts and dogma so we shall, ermmm, just dismiss it as being irrelevant - pathetic excuse for a religion, it really is!