1. Joined
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    27 Jan '12 17:40
    "id ask him "rape,murder,pedophilia,cancer,aids,meningitis,war,poverty,ann coulter!!!.....you have a sick mind big fella, how did you even think this stuff up?"

    This was posted on the "Ask God?" forum. Any comments on this? Does God cause these things to happen?
  2. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    27 Jan '12 17:50
    Originally posted by galveston75
    "id ask him "rape,murder,pedophilia,cancer,aids,meningitis,war,poverty,ann coulter!!!.....you have a sick mind big fella, how did you even think this stuff up?"

    This was posted on the "Ask God?" forum. Any comments on this? Does God cause these things to happen?
    Don't theists think that God is the first cause of everything? If he didn't create people or the devil and demons, how could there be any evil?
  3. Cape Town
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    27 Jan '12 18:14
    Originally posted by galveston75
    This was posted on the "Ask God?" forum. Any comments on this? Does God cause these things to happen?
    As SwissGambit says,
    One cannot reconcile these two claims:
    1. Everything is caused by something prior, and God is the First Cause.
    2. God did not cause evil.

    In fact, free will, is incompatible with 1. and the creation of free will by God is incompatible with 2.
  4. Joined
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    27 Jan '12 18:29
    Originally posted by galveston75
    "id ask him "rape,murder,pedophilia,cancer,aids,meningitis,war,poverty,ann coulter!!!.....you have a sick mind big fella, how did you even think this stuff up?"

    This was posted on the "Ask God?" forum. Any comments on this? Does God cause these things to happen?
    According to the bible, God IS evil.

    He made nearly all peole die in a flood, according to the Genesis. Isn't that evil, then I don't know what evil really is!
  5. Joined
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    27 Jan '12 20:18
    Just injecting a question here and that is, would any "loving" parent cause harm to a child they truly love?
  6. Joined
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    27 Jan '12 20:28
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Just injecting a question here and that is, would any "loving" parent cause harm to a child they truly love?
    God does not love his 'children'. Why else would his children fear their 'loving parent'?
  7. Joined
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    27 Jan '12 21:25
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Just injecting a question here and that is, would any "loving" parent cause harm to a child they truly love?
    This is a variation on the no true Scotsman argument. Anything offered in reply, such as, "perhaps by accident, such as backing up over your child who is on his tricycle in the driveway" can be rebutted by "If that parent was truly loving he would have assured that his child couldn't be behind the car."

    It is a form of begging the question.
  8. Joined
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    27 Jan '12 21:49
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    According to the bible, God IS evil.

    He made nearly all peole die in a flood, according to the Genesis. Isn't that evil, then I don't know what evil really is!
    He made nearly all peole die in a flood, according to the Genesis. Isn't that evil, then I don't know what evil really is!


    "And Jehovah saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." (Gen 6:15)

    So your opinion is that a "loving" God would simply let this wickedness grow worse and worse ? A Grand unjust Permissivist letting humanity rot in encreasing victimization of crimes upon crimes.
  9. Joined
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    27 Jan '12 21:55
    Originally posted by jaywill
    He made nearly all peole die in a flood, according to the Genesis. Isn't that evil, then I don't know what evil really is!


    [b]"And Jehovah saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." (Gen 6:15)


    So your opinion is that a "loving" God wou ...[text shortened]... njust Permissivist letting humanity rot in encreasing victimization of crimes upon crimes.[/b]
    Do you, as a loving parent, kill your children if they do wrong?
    Wouldn't you be evil if you kill everyone you think do wrong, including your children?

    If you don't see this as evil, then you have to define evil to me.
  10. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    27 Jan '12 22:01
    Originally posted by jaywill
    He made nearly all peole die in a flood, according to the Genesis. Isn't that evil, then I don't know what evil really is!


    [b]"And Jehovah saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." (Gen 6:15)


    So your opinion is that a "loving" God wou ...[text shortened]... njust Permissivist letting humanity rot in encreasing victimization of crimes upon crimes.[/b]
    Everyone but Noah and his family died in the flood, right? That includes infants and young children. Heck, if you're anti-abortion, you've got to realize that some pregnant women must have been killed and thus their unborn child died with them.

    Are you really willing to argue that all the infants were so evil that they all had to be killed?
  11. Joined
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    27 Jan '12 22:314 edits
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Everyone but Noah and his family died in the flood, right? That includes infants and young children. Heck, if you're anti-abortion, you've got to realize that some pregnant women must have been killed and thus their unborn child died with them.

    Are you really willing to argue that all the infants were so evil that they all had to be killed?
    Everyone but Noah and his family died in the flood, right? That includes infants and young children. Heck, if you're anti-abortion, you've got to realize that some pregnant women must have been killed and thus their unborn child died with them.

    Are you really willing to argue that all the infants were so evil that they all had to be killed?


    From my limited human and temporal viewpoint, I might dispair at the loss of such lives. However, from the transcendent vantage point of the Creator, their deaths in the flood may not have all been their final chapter.

    Hints in the words of Jesus lead me to believe that we do not know about the eternal destiny of these judged ones:

    Ie. Jesus tells his apostles - "And whoever does not receive you nor hear your words, as you go out of that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. Truly I say to you, It will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city." (Matt. 10:15)

    Maybe this indicates that in some judgment some of the slain of Sodom, Gomorrah, and the society of Noah's day will look at those who rejected the invitation to be saved through the Son of God and say "Man, what was it with you guys anyway ??"

    "Woe to you Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the works of power took place in you had taken place in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

    But I say to you, It will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you." (Matt.11:21,22)


    These sayings may indicate that some judged in the Old Testament time have not had their eternal evaluation before God completed. It is conceivable that some who drowned in Noah's day or who perished in Sodom , Gamorrah, or Tyre and Sidon will fair better than those who spurned the Gospel of Jesus.

    I learn to just let God be God in this matter.
  12. Joined
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    27 Jan '12 22:485 edits
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Do you, as a loving parent, kill your children if they do wrong?
    Wouldn't you be evil if you kill everyone you think do wrong, including your children?

    If you don't see this as evil, then you have to define evil to me.
    Do you, as a loving parent, kill your children if they do wrong?
    Wouldn't you be evil if you kill everyone you think do wrong, including your children?

    If you don't see this as evil, then you have to define evil to me.


    Your parallel is poor.

    In Genesis God is supremely more qualified to know what each person needs in the way of discipline. It says He saw that the imagination of the thoughts of everyone's heart was only evil continually.

    Any discipline I as a human parent meet out in love cannot possibly compare in effectiveness to what God does.

    1.) All were not killed, because Noah and family were there to start a new beginning.

    2.) Noah was "preacher of righteousness". So the 200 or so years while he was building the ark he was also preaching. Apparently only the hardest of the hard were left when the flood came.

    3.) The longevity of Methusaleh - 960 plus some years, indicates that God held off the judgment in mercy as long as He possibly could.

    The name Methusaleh means "when he dies it will come" probably refering to the judgment of the world. Now we know why no one in the Bible lived longer than Methusaleh.

    Don't compare this with me killing my children. That is absurd. But some discipline may be dispensed when toleration for some naughtiness has run its course.

    Futhermore, if one's behavior is effecting others like a spreading germ, for the sake of others, the offending one may need to be disciplined. Noah and his family may have been corrupted had that judgment not come.

    Lastly, the event should serve as an example for the world about the ways of God. That is a tragedy if you learn nothing from it.
  13. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    27 Jan '12 23:10
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [quote] Everyone but Noah and his family died in the flood, right? That includes infants and young children. Heck, if you're anti-abortion, you've got to realize that some pregnant women must have been killed and thus their unborn child died with them.

    Are you really willing to argue that all the infants were so evil that they all had to be killed? [/quo ...[text shortened]... se who spurned the Gospel of Jesus.

    I learn to just let God be God in this matter.
    I have a hard time looking past the suffering involved in the deaths we're discussing. In the flood, everyone suffered death by drowning. In Sodom and Gamorrah, people were burned alive by fire and brimstone. In Tyre/Sidon, if I recall correctly, they were attacked by Nebuchadnezzar and Alexander both, causing bloody deaths by the edge of the sword.

    It's hard for me to just trust God when he uses/endorses such violence, particularly given that at least some of the sufferers were innocent.
  14. Joined
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    27 Jan '12 23:311 edit
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    I have a hard time looking past the suffering involved in the deaths we're discussing. In the flood, everyone suffered death by drowning. In Sodom and Gamorrah, people were burned alive by fire and brimstone. In Tyre/Sidon, if I recall correctly, they were attacked by Nebuchadnezzar and Alexander both, causing bloody deaths by the edge of the sword.

    I /endorses such violence, particularly given that at least some of the sufferers were innocent.
    I have a hard time looking past the suffering involved in the deaths we're discussing. In the flood, everyone suffered death by drowning. In Sodom and Gamorrah, people were burned alive by fire and brimstone. In Tyre/Sidon, if I recall correctly, they were attacked by Nebuchadnezzar and Alexander both, causing bloody deaths by the edge of the sword.

    It's hard for me to just trust God when he uses/endorses such violence, particularly given that at least some of the sufferers were innocent.



    In myself I probably do not have any more trust then you do. But I do know One who has complete trust in the Father - Jesus Christ.

    I just come to Him, contact Him in prayer and allow the Son of God to be the "trusting one" for me. I lay my hands on Him for He is the only one who was ever absolute for the Father's will.
  15. Joined
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    28 Jan '12 00:10
    Originally posted by jaywill
    He made nearly all peole die in a flood, according to the Genesis. Isn't that evil, then I don't know what evil really is!


    [b]"And Jehovah saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." (Gen 6:15)


    So your opinion is that a "loving" God wou ...[text shortened]... njust Permissivist letting humanity rot in encreasing victimization of crimes upon crimes.[/b]
    Good point. If God saw that the bad was so out of control and he knew the life's of the last few good humans were possibly in danger and then he also knew by reading the hearts of vast majority of humans during that time period were "all bad" as the bible says except for these 8, it would be loving for him to act and protect their lifes and the future life's of us all.
    Plus all the humans that were alive at that time had the direct influance from demons that had materialized and took on human bodies. That is a major factor that the humans had against them and God knew that perhaps they had been influanced beyond any help.
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