1. PenTesting
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    12 Jun '16 14:21
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Where in the Bible is the 'seed' used interchangeably with 'spirit', if you dont mind me asking.

    Seems to me that the most likely interpretation of 'seed' is the 'word of God' as Jesus used it in the parable of the sower. If the 'word of God' = 'teachings of Christ, is truly within a man, then that man will refrain from sin.
    You said that seed and spirit is used interchangeably. Do you have a reference to demonstrate this?
  2. R
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    12 Jun '16 16:32
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    You said that seed and spirit is used interchangeably. Do you have a reference to demonstrate this?
    It's not in the red letters, so no worries for you.
  3. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    12 Jun '16 20:54
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    May very well be. The parallel to what the Bible says is that people have the knowledge of good and evil and this is what the conscience is all about, telling them right from wrong.
    I would have thought telling right from wrong can be gleened by anyone, even if their seed is still 'gestating'.lol

    I suppose calling it a 'divine spark' isn't really very helpful either
  4. R
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    13 Jun '16 08:333 edits
    Originally posted by checkbaiter

    http://www.revisedenglishversion.com/1-Peter/chapter1/23[/b]
    This part of Checkbaiter's paste I think is good.

    “seed.” The Greek word is spora (#4701 σπορά ), and it means “the sowing of seed,” and by extension, “seed” or that which is sown. When a person acts on Romans 10:9, and confesses that Jesus is Lord and believes that God raised him from the dead, he is “born again.” This birth is real, and involves God spiritually sowing his nature (or His seed), holy spirit, into the individual. Like God who gave it, the spiritual seed is “imperishable.” This should be a great source of comfort to every Christian, because the New Birth is irrevocable--it cannot be undone, and it guarantees salvation and everlasting life. God sows His imperishable seed into each Christian by creating it in him, which is why, upon being born again, each Christian is a “new creation” (2 Cor. 5:17).


    I think Holy Spirit should be capitalized for He is God.
    And some other matters in the following paragraph, if discussed now, would change the subject too much.

    This note from that Commentary, I think is good.
  5. R
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    13 Jun '16 08:421 edit
    Taken from Lie Study of 1,2,3 John by Witness Lee
    [my bolding]

    http://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=22CA16C7F7

    The Divine Birth and the Divine
    Seed


    Another marvelous verse is 3:9: “Everyone who has been begotten of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him, and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God.” In this verse, John speaks of those who have been “begotten of God.” John's writings emphasize the divine birth, our regeneration. It is a great wonder that human beings can be begotten of God, regenerated of Him. As believers in Christ, we have not only been begotten of our father—we have been begotten of God. Whoever is begotten of a human being automatically becomes a human being. In the same principle, whatever is begotten of a dog is a dog. The point here is that a certain kind of life will always beget that kind of life. I would not say that because we have been begotten of God, we are God. However, according to the Scriptures, we can say that because we have been begotten of God, we are children of God with the divine life and nature. God is our Father, and we are His children possessing His life and nature. Just as we have been begotten of our parents to have the human life and nature, so we have been begotten of God to have the divine life and nature.


    More below
  6. R
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    13 Jun '16 08:461 edit
    Cont. above - Life Study of 1,2,3 John by Witness Lee,
    http://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=22CA16C7F7
    [my bolding]

    ...

    According to 3:9, everyone who has been begotten of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him. To practice sin is to live in sin habitually. Because we have been begotten of God, we do not practice sin. For example, a cat practices mouse-catching because it has such a life. However, a dog, having a different kind of life, does not have that practice. Anyone who practices sin is not a child of God. No one who is a child of God habitually lives in sin.

    The reason someone who has been begotten of God does not practice sin is that God's seed abides in him. The seed in this verse is God's life, which we received when we were begotten of Him. This divine seed abides in every regenerated believer. How marvelous that God's seed abides in us! What a tremendous revelation this is! I cannot say how far this revelation goes beyond the teachings of Confucius concerning the highest learning. Because we have been begotten of God, His seed abides in us. Do you not have the sense that there is something living and organic moving and growing within you? Sometimes we can sense the activity of this seed, and at other times we can sense that it is blossoming.

    In the parable of the sower in Matthew 13 we see that the Lord Jesus came as a sower to sow Himself as the divine seed into the human heart. Our heart is the soil where the divine seed grows. This seed is nothing less than God Himself. A wheat seed is wheat, and a carnation seed is a carnation. In the same principle, God's seed is God Himself. Through regeneration God has become an organic life seed growing within us. Eventually, this seed will blossom and bear fruit. Because this seed is divine, it does not practice sin.
  7. R
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    13 Jun '16 15:01
    Originally posted by sonship
    Cont. above - [b]Life Study of 1,2,3 John by Witness Lee,
    http://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=22CA16C7F7
    [my bolding]

    ...

    According to 3:9, everyone who has been begotten of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him. To practice sin is to live in sin habitually. Because we have been begotten of God, ...[text shortened]... eed will blossom and bear fruit. Because this seed is divine, it does not practice sin.
    [/b]
    I like this. Many people think verses that say we do not sin means zero tolerance. What it means is habitually.
    The sin nature habitually sins, while the new nature is bent on the opposite.
  8. The Ghost Chamber
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    13 Jun '16 15:07
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    I like this. Many people think verses that say we do not sin means zero tolerance. What it means is habitually.
    The sin nature habitually sins, while the new nature is bent on the opposite.
    So there is an internal battle in a theist between the 'sin nature' and the 'new nature'?
  9. R
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    13 Jun '16 15:251 edit
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    I like this. Many people think verses that say we do not sin means zero tolerance. What it means is habitually.
    The sin nature habitually sins, while the new nature is bent on the opposite.
    I like this. Many people think verses that say we do not sin means zero tolerance. What it means is habitually.
    The sin nature habitually sins, while the new nature is bent on the opposite.


    Many times resolving to not sin has the opposite effect. Sin, as a evil rebellious "person" in the fallen nature will rise up and rebel on general principle.

    It is as if sin says -

    "Oh, so you are going to be good in this thing are you? Well I resist on general principle and rise up, stir up, and bring you DOWN !"

    So the Christian must learn not to strive against the sinning nature. But the Christian must learn to turn to the Lord Spirit. The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of the Victor.

    "Lord Jesus. YOU have to handle it. Lord Jesus, I turn to You. In Your is victory. In You is the overcoming ability. Lord Jesus, it is not in me. I touch You Lord Jesus."

    The new nature is there. The influence of that new nature we must learn to stir up and cause to flow into our soul.

    The Divine Seed of Divine Life has the power. It works like a LAW. In fact it is called "the law of the Spirit of life" in Romans 8.

    Like the law of gravity "the law of the Spirit of life" in Christ Jesus FREES, LIBERATES, causes us to overcome the sinning nature.

    " There is now then no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

    For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death." (Rom. 8:1,2)



    The athiests and agnostics on the Forum constantly ask things like - "What is your evidence that God exists ?"

    After walking in the Spirit we feel strongly that we are on the right track to believe in Jesus Christ because of a law of the Spirit of life empowering to do what we know we could otherwise not do.

    Even people with a strong will power have some area where they feel hopeless and helpless. Jesus Christ can come into our innermost being and act as a LAW when we turn our hearts TO Him, trusting Him, relying on Him.
  10. R
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    13 Jun '16 15:321 edit
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    So there is an internal battle in a theist between the 'sin nature' and the 'new nature'?
    Yes. There is a battle. And He who is in the Christian is greater than the one in the world.

    "You are of God, little children; and you have overcome them because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world." (1 John 4:4)


    In the fallen flesh - in the fallen man is also "in the world".

    Experience this for yourself. Ask the Lord Jesus to come into your heart cleansing you from all sins in His precious blood.

    Then wake up each morning for a week proclaiming -

    "Lord Jesus, O Lord Jesus You are the greater One in me. Thankyou Lord Jesus my Savior, my Lord and Savior. You are the greater One in me. Empower me Lord Jesus."

    After some days of noticing how Christ strengthens you from the very kernel of your being you too will become more and more convinced - "The New Testament is true. Jesus is Lord ! I must tell someone."


    If we learn to overcome in Jesus Christ in this age, in the next age we will reign with Him as co-kings over the planet.

    Join the REAL Masters of the Universe.
  11. R
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    13 Jun '16 16:48
    Originally posted by sonship
    I like this. Many people think verses that say we do not sin means zero tolerance. What it means is habitually.
    The sin nature habitually sins, while the new nature is bent on the opposite.


    Many times resolving to not sin has the opposite effect. Sin, as a evil rebellious "person" in the fallen nature will rise up and rebel on general ...[text shortened]... r innermost being and act as a LAW when we turn our hearts TO Him, trusting Him, relying on Him.
    In simple terms if the Law said don't think of an apple for example,
    humans by nature did not even consider an apple, but now, try as hard as they might, they can't help but think of an apple.
    This is why the Law "killed" us. It was not possible to not think of an apple and why we needed Jesus Christ.
  12. R
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    13 Jun '16 21:04
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    In simple terms [b]if the Law said don't think of an apple for example,
    humans by nature did not even consider an apple, but now, try as hard as they might, they can't help but think of an apple.
    This is why the Law "killed" us. It was not possible to not think of an apple and why we needed Jesus Christ.[/b]
    Very much so. I noticed this as a small child. Before I read Romans chapter 7, I realized that I could not always control my mind.

    This law of life will take from all the way to be conformed to the image of the Firstborn Son of God.

    There is a key factor. It functions best in an atmosphere of oneness and horizontal love between the brothers and sisters in Christ.

    The oneness of the local church is the fertile ground which best allows the law of life to command transformation. See Psalm 133 where God commands the blessing, even life forevermore.
  13. R
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    13 Jun '16 21:09
    Originally posted by sonship
    Very much so. I noticed this as a small child. Before I read [b]Romans chapter 7, I realized that I could not always control my mind.

    This law of life will take from all the way to be conformed to the image of the Firstborn Son of God.

    There is a key factor. It functions best in an atmosphere of oneness and horizontal love between the brothers ...[text shortened]... nd transformation. See Psalm 133 where God commands the blessing, even life forevermore.[/b]
    Amen...
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    13 Jun '16 21:151 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Well that makes sense that the seed is the word of God, and whoever is born of God, has the word of God [seed or divine seed] within him and therefore he cannot sin.

    However sonship and checkbaiter are using the expression 'divine seed' ro mean something else. Not sure how to express it. Lets hope they contribute.
    Actually, what I posted was meant semi-tongue-in-cheek to show how easy it is to cobble together verses taken out of context from disparate sources in the manner of jaywill. I spared you the multi-post rambling incoherent walls of text.

    From what I can tell SS and CB seem to envision some sort of only semi-efficacious 'seed' that has infiltrated a completely degenerate flesh. Apparently, this 'seed' of God lacks the power to completely overtake the flesh. Evidently this "seed" of God is not powerful enough to overcome it.

    In the conception of the teachings of Jesus while He walked the Earth, it is about transformation rather than mere infiltration: from a "bad tree" to a "good tree", from a "slave" to a "son", from one "born of the flesh" to one "born of the spirit", etc.

    In the conception of the dogma of SS and CB, a "good tree" lives inside a "bad tree", a "son" lives inside a "slave", a "seed" of God lives inside the flesh, etc. which makes a mockery of the words of Jesus.
  15. R
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    14 Jun '16 18:421 edit
    The divine seed is Jesus Christ Himself in a form in which He can be dispensed into man's innermost spiritual being.

    John 14 is all about Jesus Christ coming to live in the lovers of Christ.

    Before chapter 14 we have the same matter expressed in John 4 to the sinful woman by the well.

    " But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall by no means thirst forever; but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water gushing up into eternal life." (John 4:14)


    In words slightly different from a "seed" Jesus explains how Christ Himself as Spirit will bring the Triune God into the thirsty sinner, installing divine life within them. And this life will be as a gushing up fountain ushering the "drinker" into eternal life.

    The same matter of the dispensed Christ as life is again in chapter 7.

    " ... If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.

    But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus was not yet glorified." (John 7:39)


    Innermost being is the nucleus, the kernel of a man's spiritual being, not his flesh.

    The growing seed and the gushing up fountain speak of the same thing - the dispensed divine life in Jesus Christ filling, growing, spreading, permeating a believer.

    The growing see and the rivers of living water speak of the same thing - the imparted divine life in Jesus Christ flowing out of a man into all the parts of his soul.

    Different word pictures are used to teach the same matter - God dispensing His life into man. And that life is Christ.
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