@kevin-eleven saidIt is for content; it becomes meaningless to give it to someone we may find irritating when what is said is benign or non-confrontational.
Yeah, but they absolutely deserve it. 😉
@fmf saidYou miss the point if you think I'm talking about what we believe concerning universal origins. I didn't become a Christian until I was 25. I was into partying, making more money at the time than I knew what to do with. I'm 66 now; it was a life-changing event when I accepted the Lord. He changed me and is still. It wasn't just a mental acknowledgment of specific truths concerning universal truths; all of that came later.
"Any circumstance in any other name"?
The circumstance/name is specifically Christian faith, Jesus etc. and not just "any" name.
Christian faith is clearly not an experience that is "common to all man".
"...what you experienced... [is] not one of divine origin..."
Well, of course. I am an agnostic atheist, so the reality in which I perceive us both to be living is not "of divine origin". Yes.
@kellyjay saidI am not "missing the point".
You miss the point if you think I'm talking about what we believe concerning universal origins. I didn't become a Christian until I was 25. I was into partying, making more money at the time than I knew what to do with. I'm 66 now; it was a life-changing event when I accepted the Lord. He changed me and is still. It wasn't just a mental acknowledgment of specific truths concerning universal truths; all of that came later.
I know full well that faith or gaining faith can be "a life-changing event".
I fully accept that faith changed you and still does.
I totally get it when you choose to characterize it as NOT "a mental acknowledgement of specific truths".
I understand what Christian faith is. I "experiential knowledge" of it, as josephw put it.
There is absolutely no "missing the point" going on here.
@fmf saidYou are still thinking of all of this as some mental thing that resides in us alone. That is simply ignoring the possibility that something from the outside can change us from the inside out by coming into us.
I am not "missing the point".
I know full well that faith or gaining faith can be "a life-changing event".
I fully accept that faith changed you and still does.
I totally get it when you choose to characterize it as NOT "a mental acknowledgement of specific truths".
I understand what Christian faith is. I "experiential knowledge" of it, as josephw put it.
There is absolutely no "missing the point" going on here.
@kellyjay saidI am not "ignoring [any] possibilities".
That is simply ignoring the possibility that something from the outside can change us from the inside out by coming into us.
Obviously, the Bible, its words, its teachings and Christian beliefs come from "outside" you and go "into" you and can, of course, "change" you.
@fmf saidExcept for the part that changes me, that is not me; it is the Lord, who you are denying. For you, it is all just an ordinary common human experience and nothing unique everyone can have it just like you did. You missed it!
Your faith, too, is "all in you" and, since your conversion, "it was always all in you".
@kellyjay saidI don't believe it is "the Lord" that changes you, KellyJay.
Except for the part that changes me, that is not me; it is the Lord, who you are denying.
I think what changes you is the inspiration and encouragement and perspective and motivation and psychological strength that your belief in "the Lord" [i.e. your faith] gives you.
I am not - I repeat NOT - denying that your faith changes you; it changed me too.
1 edit
@kellyjay saidI don't think faith in Jesus Christ and in the teaching of the Bible can be described as "just an ordinary common human experience".
For you, it is all just an ordinary common human experience and nothing unique everyone can have it just like you did.
Sorry, KellyJay, my experiential knowledge of the Christian faith does not allow me to simply dismiss Christian faith as "nothing unique" or "ordinary".
