Does God have the right to kill?

Originally posted by KellyJay
A human judge can sentence a person to death due to the laws that were
broken, so the King of the Universe can sentence any group due to them
breaking any of His laws. It is His right to rule as He sees fit.
Kelly

What if the judge is unnecessarily harsh?
Or the law is unjust?

Does the judge have the right to sentence a man to death.
Did Pol Pot? Hitler? Stalin? Tojo? Leopold II ?
They were the law .. so that was OK?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
What if the judge is unnecessarily harsh?
Or the law is unjust?

Does the judge have the right to sentence a man to death.
Did Pol Pot? Hitler? Stalin? Tojo? Leopold II ?
They were the law .. so that was OK?

In order to make the claim a "judge is unnecessarily harsh" there would
have to be a standard of proper judging. Which takes me back to the
only real question here, (God vs. man). Who can hold God to any
standard? You may dislike His laws, but you will obey them or pay
a price. You don't believe me, walk off a tall building and see if His law
of gravity doesn't ruin your whole day. You may be able to momentarily
delay His law of gravity by airplanes, hand gliders, and what not from
effecting you, but it does not stop due to your will, it is what it is.

So it is with all of His laws! His love and mercy is as great as His
wrath and judgment. I'd prefer to fall out asking for His love and mercy
than claim for my very own His wrath and judgment.

There is nothing or no one to compare Him too, unlike Pol Pot, Hitler,
Stalin, Tojo, and so on. We see men and women in our lifetimes that
in our own estimation are better or worse than others. There is none
like God, none who compares to Him! He is the giver of life, no other does
that, He holds all things together by the power of His Word, no other
does that.

He also is a God of mercy, who prefers that over judgment and wrath,
but He isn't mocked, He will dish out judgment and wrath.

So in His authority, He is just in all He does, it is His right, He is before
all things! He is also as you and others have pointed out, powerful
enough that none can stop Him so his might is beyond question too.

More than all of this, I have to tell you, He is the best part of life once
you get to know Him.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
In order to make the claim a "judge is unnecessarily harsh" there would
have to be a standard of proper judging. Which takes me back to the
only real question here, (God vs. man). Who can hold God to any
standard? You may dislike His laws, but you will obey them or pay
a price. You don't believe me, walk off a tall building and see if His law
of g ...[text shortened]... all of this, I have to tell you, He is the best part of life once
you get to know Him.
Kelly

[as I am specifically talking to Kelly here I will simplify things by only discussing the
bible god he believes in. god here will mean specifically Kelly's god. Also for the purposes
of this argument I will assume that this god exists.]

You keep asking who can hold god to any standard.

I can, and do. [this is not a unique power of mine, anyone can do it]

What is or is not moral is determined not by what your god says but by what
best achieves human well-being.

If what god says does not achieve, or even harms, human well-being then
it is not moral.

Period.

To claim otherwise is to claim that anything god does is moral because god does
it and anything god says or commands is moral because god commands it.

And that requires allowing ANYTHING to be considered moral, on the whim of a
tyrant.


You, as many theists do, confuse laws with morality.


God cares not one iota about morality, he cares about SIN.
He cares about people breaking his laws, which is what sin is.

Sin and morality are two different things, they may occasionally overlap where
gods laws happen to coincide with what is morally right.
But things can be moral (or amoral) and be a sin, and not be a sin but be immoral.

An example might be declaring it a sin to work on the Sabbath... Which is not immoral,
and indeed if work needs to be done it could well be immoral not to work.


That your god is powerful and a tyrant, and might be able to enact and enforce laws
on a whim, is irrelevant to the question of whether those laws, or it's actions are or
are not moral.

Might makes mighty, it does not make right.

Originally posted by KellyJay
1. In order to make the claim a "judge is unnecessarily harsh" there would
have to be a standard of proper judging. Which takes me back to the
only real question here, (God vs. man). Who can hold God to any
standard?

2. You may dislike His laws, but you will obey them or pay
a price.

1. No. That is not the question we are debating. The question is
"Does God have the right to kill?" if you don't want to debate that
then do not participate. If you want to debate "Who can hold god o any standard?" then start that thread.

2. Again we are back to might makes right. Fair enough; if that is your
justification for god having the right to kill you must also agree that
Hitler and all the other villains cited had the right too.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
[b]1. No. That is not the question we are debating. The question is
"Does God have the right to kill?" if you don't want to debate that
then do not participate. If you want to debate "Who can hold god o any standard?" then start that thread.

2. Again we are back to might makes right. Fair enough; if that is your
justification for god ha ...[text shortened]... ht to kill you must also agree that
Hitler and all the other villains cited had the right too.[/b]

Does God have the 'right' to kill, or is it right when God kills?
His right to do what He wills is His authority.
If you feel He is unjust in when He killed others that is a different question.
By His right of rule gives him the right, it is no different than when a human
judge by the authority given him orders the death of someone else. The
right of the human judge rests in who gave him that authority, while with
God it is His by His position.

As far as who can hold God to a standard, unlike someone who cries they
do not like God's rule, cannot due nothing to alter God's position in the
least, nor can they make God alter God's position on anything.

Unlike if we dislike a country's position on something anything from talks
to war could be used to change that position. You may as well cry you do
not like gravity, you may cry nothing will change.

If you want to discuss the justice of God's acts seems to me where you
are really at, because the right to do anything rests in the authority of
deed and who gives it.
Kelly

Originally posted by wolfgang59
[b]1. No. That is not the question we are debating. The question is
"Does God have the right to kill?" if you don't want to debate that
then do not participate. If you want to debate "Who can hold god o any standard?" then start that thread.

2. Again we are back to might makes right. Fair enough; if that is your
justification for god ha ...[text shortened]... ht to kill you must also agree that
Hitler and all the other villains cited had the right too.[/b]

Did Hitler give life to those whose life he ended? Did Hitler give the earth
all the food for life to those he killed before he killed them? Did Hitler by the
power of his word hold everything together while everyone who lived went
about their daily lives? I think not, did Hitler speak the universe into being
by his own power for reasons of his own? God and Hitler are not a good
comparison as I said, no one compares to God in who He is.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Did Hitler give life to those whose life he ended? Did Hitler give the earth
all the food for life to those he killed before he killed them? Did Hitler by the
power of his word hold everything together while everyone who lived went
about their daily lives? I think not, did Hitler speak the universe into being
by his own power for reasons of his own? God and Hitler are not a good
comparison as I said, no one compares to God in who He is.
Kelly

As I have said before it is you who made the comparison in the first place.
In fact it is your only answer to the OP question.

Everything you have just posted is irrelevant to the debate.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
As I have said before it is you who made the comparison in the first place.
In fact it is your only answer to the OP question.

Everything you have just posted is irrelevant to the debate.

Context should mean something.
It is still by rule of law, that is the right by which it is done by God.


If the discussion is, do we find it good or bad, is another question all
together. It is also one I'd not even enter into, because it goes to what
each person feels, there isn't a standard we would agree upon.
Kelly

Originally posted by googlefudge
[as I am specifically talking to Kelly here I will simplify things by only discussing the
bible god he believes in. god here will mean specifically Kelly's god. Also for the purposes
of this argument I will assume that this god exists.]

You keep asking who can hold god to any standard.

I can, and do. [i][this is not a unique power of min ...[text shortened]... ose laws, or it's actions are or
are not moral.

Might makes mighty, it does not make right.

It depends on the definition of "right" one is using.

RIGHT

1. that which is morally correct, just, or honorable.

2. a moral or legal entitlement to have or obtain something or to act in a certain way.

MIGHT

1. The power, force, or influence held by a person or group.

2. Physical strength.

3. Strength or ability to do something.

The Instructor

Originally posted by galveston75
This subject comes up from time to time with many comments about God taking life in the past of seemingly innocent ones.
I know some here express anger and even hatred to a God that would do this.
Any thoughts as to why he did this and could still possibly do it again?

God has not killed and will never kill and cannot kill anything.

This is because we cannot be killed.

We cannot be killed because we are all eternal spiritual beings.

The body can be destroyed ........but we are not the body.

So now you can never blame God again.

Originally posted by Dasa
God has not killed and will never kill and cannot kill anything.

This is because we cannot be killed.

We cannot be killed because we are all eternal spiritual beings.

The body can be destroyed ........but we are not the body.

So now you can never blame God again.

Good luck with that concept. We ARE our bodies and nothing more. You are welcome to provide proof of your statements without referring to the Veda's though since they were just written by men.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Good luck with that concept. We ARE our bodies and nothing more. You are welcome to provide proof of your statements without referring to the Veda's though since they were just written by men.

I believe all your science books are written by mundane dishonest men who seek fame and adoration and profit.

Vedas are spoken by enlightened honest men who seek only to teach.

Explain to everyone here how consciousness is created and sustained with all its wonderful attributes of willing and thinking and problem solving and remembering etc.

Also explain how the reproductive system is existing without developing in small incriminate stages due to evolution.

I have many questions which cannot be answered by your beloved evolution theory.

The evolution theory is still a theory......... [it has never been proven and never shall be.]

The evolution theory is the atheists Holy Grail for rejecting God.................and this is why they defend it to their death / but it is like smashing square pegs into round holes.

Originally posted by Dasa
God has not killed and will never kill and cannot kill anything.

This is because we cannot be killed.

We cannot be killed because we are all eternal spiritual beings.

The body can be destroyed ........but we are not the body.

So now you can never blame God again.

We can't be killed?
Then why moan about killing animals?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
We can't be killed?
Then why moan about killing animals?

I think it is the eating of animals that turns his stomach.

The Instructor

Originally posted by KellyJay
God sanctions all death, He was the one that said we would die, and has
set the limits for us. So for Him to end one or millions, it is up to Him.
Kelly

Uhm, even if true, so what?