26 Dec 07
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayWhy would SuperDuper God care if something as puny as the human race "rebelled" i.e. didn't do what it was told to do by His Most High Petulance? Hasn't he got better things to do with his Almighty Greatness than worry about such a petty matter? Then again, maybe amoebas are pissing him off, too and will be "dealt with in short order" by eternal punishment of some sort.
I don't believe the amoeba or rocks for that matter rebelled as did
the demons and human race. I'm not to concern about the rest of
creation and its relationship with God, it seems it has a good one,
but the human race which as put in charge of this portion of God's
creation has an issue, but is being dealt with in short order.
Kelly
26 Dec 07
Originally posted by no1marauderIt isn't a complete mystery; you want my take on that part of the
Why would SuperDuper God care if something as puny as the human race "rebelled" i.e. didn't do what it was told to do by His Most High Petulance? Hasn't he got better things to do with his Almighty Greatness than worry about such a petty matter? Then again, maybe amoebas are pissing him off, too and will be "dealt with in short order" by eternal punishment of some sort.
biblical creation story or you can read if for yourself which I
was under the impression you already have. The long and short
of it is that God has a purpose and plan for us that is unique,
why and what that is I don’t know.
Kelly
26 Dec 07
Originally posted by KellyJayOf course I read it; it's what you would expect from semi-savages who thought the whole universe revolved around them and what happened to them. But it doesn't make any sense; a SuperDuper God would hardly care what something as insignificant as human beings did, just as you don't care what amoebas do (except even more so since amoebas can actually harm you in certain cases and are far closer to us in capabilities than we would be to a 3-O God). Why would he bother to have a plan for "us" that was unique? You guys keep insisting that human beings are utterly worthless and depraved yet at the same time insist that His Almighty Greatness actually wants us to hang around and grovel before him for all eternity. Why would he desire such a thing?
It isn't a complete mystery; you want my take on that part of the
biblical creation story or you can read if for yourself which I
was under the impression you already have. The long and short
of it is that God has a purpose and plan for us that is unique,
why and what that is I don’t know.
Kelly
26 Dec 07
Originally posted by KellyJayI'm not to concern about the rest of
I don't believe the amoeba or rocks for that matter rebelled as did
the demons and human race. I'm not to concern about the rest of
creation and its relationship with God, it seems it has a good one,
but the human race which as put in charge of this portion of God's
creation has an issue, but is being dealt with in short order.
Kelly
creation and its relationship with God, it seems it has a good one,
Given what you believe, I'm not sure you have good grounds for this lack of concern. As one example, don't you believe in a more or less literal account of The Flood? That's an account in which God demonstrates supreme irresponsibility regarding our obligations toward other species. He was irritated and dismayed with human failings, so he exacted revenge against not just us but all sorts of other species? What an idiot on multiple levels! I've thought for a long time that the Bible in many places is what you would expect if it were inspired by a bunch of ignorant speciesists -- and not what you would expect if it had been inspired by an super-intelligent being that holds a proper perspective toward all species. Your ridiculous God is also largely what we should expect from a project that anthropomorphizes the __________.
27 Dec 07
Originally posted by eatmybishopIf God is loving he gets angry when those he loves suffers. Who would'nt? Sin by my definition is the source of all suffering. Sin is simply the deviation from the law of love. Therefore, God gets angry when we sin. Makes sense, no?
so with that comment, you still believe god gets angry?
27 Dec 07
Originally posted by scottishinnzJust like it is impossible to draw a square circle, we have gone over
I'm suggesting that it is illogical and impossible respectively for an omniscient and omnibenevolent God to get mad at anyone.
this before. God knows everything that can be known, God can do
anything that can be done, granted those are limits but they are
still ones I can live with and call God all knowing or say that God
can do anything. God gave us the ability to do what we will within
our limitations and is holding off His permanent judgment on all of
creation until a time He has set. I agree if everything was done just
as God wants, than all of creation would be like a computer program
with out a will to do or say thing outside of what God programmed
the creation to do or say, why judge something as wrong when it could
do nothing else. Having given mankind the ability to do and say
whatever mankind wants within the limitations man has, man than
becomes responsible for mans own actions. Once the choice is yours
so is the responsibility for your choices.
Kelly
27 Dec 07
Originally posted by LemonJelloWe were put in charge of many things on the planet, we were given a
[b]I'm not to concern about the rest of
creation and its relationship with God, it seems it has a good one,
Given what you believe, I'm not sure you have good grounds for this lack of concern. As one example, don't you believe in a more or less literal account of The Flood? That's an account in which God demonstrates supreme irresponsibility reg ...[text shortened]... is also largely what we should expect from a project that anthropomorphizes the __________.[/b]
the charge to rule here. When we fell we took our charge down with us
as the case when anyone who is responsible falls in the performance
of their duty, whatever they were in charge of also suffers. So it
stands to reason to me anyway that once we were redeemed so was
the creation that was put under us for the very same reason. I don’t
worry about the rest of creation it will under go some changes when
the time comes as will we.
Kelly
27 Dec 07
Originally posted by KellyJaySo you're saying that God placed us in charge of the other species, and we have failed to at least some extent in those duties. Okay, but what does that have to do with the ways in which God himself treats these other species, which was the focus of my previous post? Do you think it was right for God to drown out a whole bunch of innocent animals because he was irritated with human failings? If I were to place you in charge of a small child and you fail to carry out some of your duties, does that give me license to bring suffering and punishment on the child?
We were put in charge of many things on the planet, we were given a
the charge to rule here. When we fell we took our charge down with us
as the case when anyone who is responsible falls in the performance
of their duty, whatever they were in charge of also suffers. So it
stands to reason to me anyway that once we were redeemed so was
the creation that ...[text shortened]... about the rest of creation it will under go some changes when
the time comes as will we.
Kelly
27 Dec 07
5 edits
Originally posted by LemonJelloHere is my take on the situation. Mankind is the focus of God's creation. Of coarse there will be those who scoff at such a notion and say how dare we place ourselves in such a position of importance. After all, we are but dust and even smaller, in fact, in comparison to the eminsity of the universe. However, consider the Biblical fact that mankind was the last creation in the Bible. He was the climax of creation, in fact. It wan'nt a planet or a galaxy etc. etc. Also, mankind is different from the rest of creation in that God breathed "neshamah" into him or the "soul of life" into him and within which we have the power of "free will". Now imagine a universe in which God now has complete and utter control over EXCEPT direct control over our free will that he had chosen beforehand to relinquish power over. Now considering you have absolute power over everything except human free will what is going to be your focus?
So you're saying that God placed us in charge of the other species, and we have failed to at least some extent in those duties. Okay, but what does that have to do with the ways in which God himself treats these other species, which was the focus of my previous post? Do you think it was right for God to drown out a whole bunch of innocent animals becaus ...[text shortened]... some of your duties, does that give me license to bring suffering and punishment on the child?
To drive home the point, what do you focus on most in your life? Is it over computer programs that you have complete control over or is it interpersonal relationships that you have no control over other than to share your love? Perhaps your computer program has greater abilities than the ones you love. In fact, perhaps it will last thousands of years more than the one you love yet you cherish only that which you have no control over. In fact, you only value the love of another if they have the power to reject or accept your love in return.
Now getting back to the flood scenerio. Lets imagine a world that has gone desperatly wrong. In fact, if you do not intervene in a harsh and direct way mankind that you prize above all else will be lost forever! What do you do if the only way you see to both preserve mankind and his ability to choose good and evil is to flood the world? Do you allow mankind to destroy themselves which may buy them a few years of life or do you flood the world in order to save the fate of mankind from almost certain destruction in the end?
27 Dec 07
1 edit
Originally posted by whodeyAs I said, it is understandable that semisavages would think that the entire universe revolved around them and what happened to them. What's your excuse?
Here is my take on the situation. Mankind is the focus of God's creation. Of coarse there will be those who scoff at such a notion and say how dare we place ourselves in such a position of importance. After all, we are but dust and even smaller, in fact, in comparison to the eminsity of the universe. However, consider the Biblical fact that mankind was th ars more than the one you love yet you cherish only that which you have no control over.
Using the Bible to "prove" that Mankind is the "center of God's creation" is begging the question to the nth degree. You continue to anthromorphize an entity that, as conceived, has virtually nothing in common with humans. Why would he care about what humans do with their "free will" enough to punish them eternally for exercising it? Why would he really want us to grovel before him for all eternity (in Heaven our all-important "free will" is taken away)?
27 Dec 07
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderDid I say the entire universe revolves around me? No, in fact, I did not. I am only communicating the importance of humanity in the eyes of the God of the Bible. If you do not agree then perhaps you do not see the harm in eating people. After all, why are you more important that a plant or an animal that you eat? In a way, you agree with this thinking, or at least I hope you do, whether you admit to it or not.
As I said, it is understandable that semisavages would think that the entire universe revolved around them and what happened to them. What's your excuse?
Using the Bible to "prove" that Mankind is the "center of God's creation" is begging the question to the nth degree. You continue to anthromorphize an entity that, as conceived, has virtua l before him for all eternity (in Heaven our all-important "free will" is taken away)?
As for the punishing part, if we choose not to choose him then we are cut off from him. We are then cut off from the source of love and life. In that sense it is punishment.