does god really get angry???

Originally posted by whodey
What good is it? The goal is to do away with sin and all those who love it and live by it because God is aware of the suffering that results from it. Sin is but for a season. A very short season in comparison to all eternity.

The consequences of that 'very short season' of sin are felt for eternity by the damned.

If this is the net result of 'free will', then God should not have given it to us. His need to be loved does not justify the deliberate infliction of eternal suffering on billions of people.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
[b]Kelly + Jay

Because faith is meaningless if we have no free will. And if God is omniscient, we have no free will - we cannot contradict anything he a priori knows we'll do.[/b]

Not really. We have free will; it's just that God already knows what we're gonna do with that free will before we do it. It's not His fault that He's God and knows all.🙂

Originally posted by whodey
What good is it? The goal is to do away with sin and all those who love it and live by it because God is aware of the suffering that results from it. Sin is but for a season. A very short season in comparison to all eternity.

"Sin" is created by God since it merely means to do what God doesn't want us to do. To "do away with it" he must "do away" with free will, which he does in Heaven. But if the goal was to do away with sin, an easier way to do so would have either been to A) Not create the concept in the first place i.e. not get angry when persons with free will don't do everything you want them to; or B) Never give them the ability to sin at all.

It is not "love" to insist that the one we love must do whatever we demand or we will punish them. Your God is incapable of love.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Not really. We have free will; it's just that God already knows what we're gonna do with that free will before we do it. It's not His fault that He's God and knows all.🙂

I'm not sure about that, but don't worry to much about it. It is one of
those things that it really only matters to those that care one way or
another.
Kelly

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Not really. We have free will; it's just that God already knows what we're gonna do with that free will before we do it. It's not His fault that He's God and knows all.🙂

But he already knows what you'll do, so you could do nothing else. This is not free will, especially considering your God is omnipotent too, and designed what you'll do. Then he punishes you for doing it. What a monster.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
The consequences of that 'very short season' of sin are felt for eternity by the damned.

If this is the net result of 'free will', then God should not have given it to us. His need to be loved does not justify the deliberate infliction of eternal suffering on billions of people.

Well of coarse this is the "hell" of it, no?

How can there be a loving God and a hell? It seems as though it is an apparent contradiction as many other teachings in the Bible seem to be. Some contradictions we can work out as where other teachings are not as clear. For example Christs teaching that it is more blessed to give than to recieve is understandable even though it seems contradictory on the surface. However, just because the solution is not easy to understand or even within our limited ability to comprehend it does not mean that the solution does not exist. It reminds me of Job when he quesitoned God about his suffering. Basically he did not get a direct answer, rather, he merely got a quick dose of humility in terms of where he stood in relation to an all knowing God.

However, that does not prevent us from being like Job and wondering about such quesitons. Some Christians interpret hell as simply ceasing to be as where others acknowledge it to be a place of awareness and suffering. No matter your interpretation it is an uncomfortable one at best as it is even with me. I don't enjoy suffering nor do I enjoy the suffering of others, yet it occurs just the same, no? Therefore, I must acknowledge the existence of suffering in a universe with or wtihout God. The only question then remains, suffering with what duration and intensity?

If the universe is with God then one must be able to incorporate how there could be suffering assuming God is loving. Even temperal suffering is hard at times to make sense of if there be a loving God at the helm. However, there are things that I know about love as well. It seems that heart ache is looming just around the corner when love enters the picture. Is it worth it? Well I would say yes now even though at other times in my life I probably would have said no!! However, at such times it is always helpful for me to think of my Savior who went through his own hell for us. Was it worth it? I say it was but at the time of his suffering I often wonder what his thoughts were at the time. Having said that, I think we can all relate to the suffering of Christ when he yelled, "Father, Father, why have you forsaken me?" You know what, I don't think he even got an answer.

As for myself, I like using the two thieves on the cross who died next to Jesus as a metaphore for all of humanity. On the left side of Jesus you have the thief who cursed Jesus and told him if you be the Son of God then get me the @@#$ out of here!! The other looked at him and asked him to remember him when he enters his kingdom and he was saved. We all are dying and suffering to various degrees, however, what is our response to such suffering? That is the interesting part. Some reach out in hope despite their suffering and others simply strike out in anger. As for myself, I want to be the one reaching out in hope. If there is no hope I never want to know about it. I would rather die hoping than I would die angry and/or without hope.

Originally posted by whodey
If God is loving he gets angry when those he loves suffers. Who would'nt? Sin by my definition is the source of all suffering. Sin is simply the deviation from the law of love. Therefore, God gets angry when we sin. Makes sense, no?

no... it just cannot be as black and white as that.... was if your sin was justified?

Originally posted by whodey
Well of coarse this is the "hell" of it, no?

How can there be a loving God and a hell? It seems as though it is an apparent contradiction as many other teachings in the Bible seem to be. Some contradictions we can work out as where other teachings are not as clear. For example Christs teaching that it is more blessed to give than to recieve is under ...[text shortened]... t to know about it. I would rather die hoping than I would die angry and/or without hope.

Thanks for the honest answer.

As for myself, I want to be the one reaching out in hope. If there is no hope I never want to know about it.

To me, your worldview is the epitome of hopelessness. If I would hope for anything, it is that your God does not exist, and there is no hell for the majority of the human race to burn in.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Thanks for the honest answer.

[b]As for myself, I want to be the one reaching out in hope. If there is no hope I never want to know about it.

To me, your worldview is the epitome of hopelessness. If I would hope for anything, it is that your God does not exist, and there is no hell for the majority of the human race to burn in.[/b]

As I said, I don't wish people to experience hell either whether it be in this world or the next. However, suffering occurs just the same. It is my wish that such suffering ends at some point and I think if there be a loving God it should end at some point.

Originally posted by eatmybishop
no... it just cannot be as black and white as that.... was if your sin was justified?

Name a justifiable sin.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Thanks for the honest answer.

[b]As for myself, I want to be the one reaching out in hope. If there is no hope I never want to know about it.

To me, your worldview is the epitome of hopelessness. If I would hope for anything, it is that your God does not exist, and there is no hell for the majority of the human race to burn in.[/b]

To me, your worldview is the epitome of hopelessness. If I would hope for anything, it is that your God does not exist, and there is no hell for the majority of the human race to burn in.

Is that saying that you hope justice doesn't require the human race
to be judged and found sinners by God, or that it does not matter
what the human race is like you still do not want an eternal judgment
no matter what?
Kelly

Originally posted by whodey
Name a justifiable sin.

I think people justify sin all the time, which is why they think it is
no big deal to sin.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
[b]To me, your worldview is the epitome of hopelessness. If I would hope for anything, it is that your God does not exist, and there is no hell for the majority of the human race to burn in.

Is that saying that you hope justice doesn't require the human race
to be judged and found sinners by God, or that it does not matter
what the human race is like you still do not want an eternal judgment
no matter what?
Kelly[/b]

An eternal judgment for a non-eternal being cannot be just. Neither can it be just to give every condemned sinner the same punishment regardless of the severity of their offenses. Therefore, I would hope neither possibility is true.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
An eternal judgment for a non-eternal being cannot be just. Neither can it be just to give every condemned sinner the same punishment regardless of the severity of their offenses. Therefore, I would hope neither possibility is true.

You cannot have an eternal punishment given to a non-eternal
being. If you are not eternal you will no longer be around to be
punished. What we want to be true doesn't come into play either,
if it is true it is and we have something we wish to avoid, if it is
not true who cares. As far as the severity of sins, from where we
stand that may appear to be one thing, from God's point of view
they could be completely different so I'm not sure we can say
it is unjust without having all the facts laid out before us at this time.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
You cannot have an eternal punishment given to a non-eternal
being. If you are not eternal you will no longer be around to be
punished. What we want to be true doesn't come into play either,
if it is true it is and we have something we wish to avoid, if it is
not true who cares. As far as the severity of sins, from where we
stand that may appear to be we can say
it is unjust without having all the facts laid out before us at this time.
Kelly

"Being" was the wrong word. What I meant is that eternal punishment for actions committed within the finite lifespan here on earth is unjust.