Does one need to believe in Jesus for salvation.

@kingdavid403 said
That thing you claim they "see", projected onto non-believers, cannot be characterized as "belief in God" and "belief in His goodness".
Well, I do!

"Belief in God" cannot be attributed to people who do not believe in God simply because they do good.

@fmf said
"Belief in God" cannot be attributed to people who do not believe in God simply because they do good.

You sure?

@kingdavid403 said
You sure?

Yes. You are not making any case here. I think you stumbled badly when you said "Why would people do good works without some sort of belief in God or His goodness?"

It is, at best, some kind of fervent hyperbole that does not withstand scrutiny and shows, perhaps, that you are not much of a student of the human condition ~ and therefore have only a sketchy grasp of what "belief" is in this context.

Sure. You can say that you believe that non-believers do good because they are "made in the image" of your particular God figure.

Indeed, that may well be true.

But to claim that they have "belief in good" is language-mangling rhetoric.

@fmf said
"Belief in God" cannot be attributed to people who do not believe in God simply because they do good.

So you truly think that you, everyone you know, life around us and in us, the cosmos, etc. Are all just a fluke?
Without God, everything would be just a fluke.
What say you?
I say everyone knows whether they admit Him or not.

@kingdavid403 said
So you truly think that you, everyone you know, life around us and in us, the cosmos, etc. Are all just a fluke?
Without God, everything would be just a fluke.
What say you?
I say everyone knows whether they admit Him or not.

This is simply dodging what I am asking you about.

@kingdavid403 said
So you truly think that you, everyone you know, life around us and in us, the cosmos, etc. Are all just a fluke?
Without God, everything would be just a fluke.
What say you?
I say everyone knows whether they admit Him or not.

I don't know what the origin of the universe is. I understand that you attribute it to your particular God figure. I am open minded about there being a creator being. But I am an agnostic atheist when it comes to what people claim are their "revealed" religions. The last line of your post above is not true. It is something that has been claimed here on this forum many times by various religionists. It's just silly.

@fmf said
This is simply dodging what I am asking you about.

Are you?

@fmf said
I don't know what the origin of the universe is. I understand that you attribute it to your particular God figure. I am open minded about there being a creator being. But I am an agnostic atheist when it comes to what people claim are their "revealed" religions. The last line of your post above is not true. It is something that has been claimed here on this forum many times by various religionists. It's just silly.

Perfectly understandable.

@kingdavid403 said
Are you?

No. I am trying to keep this one on track. The questions you are not engaging or 'dealing with' with glib retorts are still there. I have responded to your dodging red herring by starting a thread about it. The topic here is your meaning-rinsing use of the word "belief" in the expression "belief in God". Two word blurts by you do not engage the effort that is being made to converse with you.

@fmf said
No. I am trying to keep this one on track. The questions you are not engaging or 'dealing with' with glib retorts are still there. I have responded to your dodging red herring by starting a thread about it. The topic here is your meaning-rinsing use of the word "belief" in the expression "belief in God". Two word blurts by you do not engage the effort that is being made to converse with you.

I am open minded about there being a creator being.
Why is this?
EDIT: 'Because you have known Him and have seen Him (paraphrased).'

@kingdavid403 said
I am open minded about there being a creator being.
Why is this?

I don't think this is really for this thread.

I started a thread for the purposes of responding to your tangent.

@fmf said
I don't think this is really for this thread.

I started a thread for the purposes of responding to your tangent.

You're the one with the tangent here sir. 😉 nite...

@kingdavid403 said
You're the one with the tangent here sir.

The tangent is yours and it is this [which you offered INSTEAD of engaging what we were talking about, hence the word "tangent"]:

So you truly think that you, everyone you know, life around us and in us, the cosmos, etc. Are all just a fluke? Without God, everything would be just a fluke. What say you? I say everyone knows whether they admit Him or not.

I moved it to another thread, a new one, where it is NOT a tangent.

@fmf said
The tangent is yours and it is this [which you offered INSTEAD of engaging what we were talking about, hence the word "tangent"]:

So you truly think that you, everyone you know, life around us and in us, the cosmos, etc. Are all just a fluke? Without God, everything would be just a fluke. What say you? I say everyone knows whether they admit Him or not.

I moved it to another thread, a new one, where it is NOT a tangent.

Good for you. Enjoy it while you're on your tangent. 🙂 LOL....

@kingdavid403 said
Good for you. Enjoy it.

The other thread is about YOUR assertion "I say everyone knows [God] whether they admit Him or not". Don't run away from it.