Originally posted by humy

I haven't committed any atrocities lately

but other people that have 'faith' certianly have.

People who commit atrocities are evil. Period. It is absurd to blame their religion for it.

and yet we have statistical evidence that theists are more likely to commit atrocities of various kinds than theists.
For example: http://www.atheismresource.com/2010/atheist-dont-commit-as-much-crime-as-the-religious-do

[quote] I haven't committed any atrocities lately

but other people that have 'faith' certianly have.[/quote]No. You are confusing faith with an evil nature. It is the evil nature that allows them to commit the atrocities, not their faith. In fact, they who commit atrocities have a very weak faith indeed. If they did in fact have a strong faith, they would not be committing atrocities.

And pardon me if I do not believe it when an atheist tells me that theists are "statistically" more likely than atheists to commit crime. It is nonsensical. If it happens to be true, then obviously, these "theists" have a very weak faith, so the sample is tainted and the results therefore skewed.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Originally posted by Suzianne

[quote] I haven't committed any atrocities lately

but other people that have 'faith' certianly have.[/quote]No. You are confusing faith with an evil nature. It is the evil nature that allows them to commit the atrocities, not their faith. In fact, they who commit atrocities have a very weak faith indeed. If they did in fact have a s e skewed.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

And the reciprocal Suzi...... that may well be just as amply put forth. 😉

-m.

Edit: forgetting the famous quote, for once, there are only two types of lie; the deliberate and undeliberate..... anything else is fixation on particular ways of deceiving the afore-mentioned two types of lie.... and that is not lying - it is a part of deliberate or undeliberate deceipt.

-m.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I can respect a Muslim that can turn from the evil ways of Islam like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EClW1r-GucA

and i can respect a christian who turns away from the evil ways of their god, like this one:


YouTube

Originally posted by Suzianne

[quote] I haven't committed any atrocities lately

but other people that have 'faith' certianly have.[/quote]No. You are confusing faith with an evil nature. It is the evil nature that allows them to commit the atrocities, not their faith. In fact, they who commit atrocities have a very weak faith indeed. If they did in fact have a s ...[text shortened]... e skewed.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

You are confusing faith with an evil nature.

Nope. Reminder of what I said with context indicated:

but other people ( other than yourself ) that have 'faith' certainly have ( committed atrocities )

I did not say nor imply nor do I claim or believe that faith equates with an evil nature.
ALL I said was that other people that have 'faith' certainly have committed atrocities; which is true.

And pardon me if I do not believe it when an atheist tells me that theists are "statistically" more likely than atheists to commit crime.

I take it then you just cannot accept statistical facts if they actually show theists in an unflattering light.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
and i can respect a christian who turns away from the evil ways of their god, like this one:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmPqUkB-mVE

YouTube

I havn't the time to watch all of it but I noticed he said about ~54 secs into the video:

“...you know, there really isn't any evidence for a God.
And, think about it, if there really was evidence for a God, by now somebody would have won the Noble prise for proving it.... many scientists would be jumping at the chance to prove it...”

That is a pretty good point.

Originally posted by humy
Most of the people you mentioned there were religious:

The followers of Stalin and Mao

http://freethoughtnation.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=334%3Awere-stalin-hitler-and-pol-pot-atheists

“...Josef Stalin's "very religious" mother named him after St. Joseph, and wanted him to become a priest. Stalin himself supposed ...[text shortened]...
“...Pol Pot himself was a communist and Theravada [b]BUDDHIST ...” (my emphasis)[/b]

I say again, Satan has really corrupted your mind to believe the lie rather than the truth. The parents's religion does not keep a person from becoming an Atheist. That is another bogus argument from the strawman king.

Originally posted by mikelom
Theravada Buddhists are not communist....

Pol Pot was communist.

I can demonstrate numerous pages, websites and studies from the likes of Yale, Harvard, Oxbridge and so forth that, after lengthy study, show that Pol Pot was not a representative of Buddhism, but merely a zombified communist on the take from both China and USA.....

You can also find f ...[text shortened]... rrogance, as symbols of truth that exemplify Theravada Buddhism..... shame on you RJ!

-m. 😠

Shame on you for believing the lies of Satan, mike.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Shame on you for believing the lies of Satan, mike.

This may come as a shock to you, RJ, but Buddhists are not Satanists.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I say again, Satan has really corrupted your mind to believe the lie rather than the truth. The parents's religion does not keep a person from becoming an Atheist. That is another bogus argument from the strawman king.

Satan has really corrupted your mind to believe the ….

there is no Satan to “corrupt” anything.
Where is your evidence that there is a Satan?

The parents's religion does not keep a person from becoming an Atheist.

How does that relate to my post?
And who is claiming that those theists became atheists? you? -if so:
Where is you evidence that all those theists that you listed that committed atrocities came to be atheist?

Originally posted by humy

You are confusing faith with an evil nature.

Nope. Reminder of what I said with context indicated:

but other people ( other than yourself ) that have 'faith' certainly have ( committed atrocities )

I did not say nor imply nor do I claim or believe that faith equates with an evil nature.
ALL I said was that other peo ...[text shortened]... st cannot accept statistical facts if they actually show theists in an unflattering light.

I did not say nor imply nor do I claim or believe that faith equates with an evil nature.
ALL I said was that other people that have 'faith' certainly have committed atrocities; which is true.

No, I know you didn't claim it. I've no idea whether you believe it or not. But you're still confusing the two, especially since you keep saying people of faith commit atrocities. No. People who are evil commit atrocities, not people who have faith. In fact, strong faith would keep people from committing atrocities, ergo, you are confusing faith with evil. This is hardly surprising. Many atheists consider faith evil. This is "believing the lie".

I take it then you just cannot accept statistical facts if they actually show theists in an unflattering light.

Not if such were indeed facts. But being spouted by an atheist brings their "factualness" into question. By definition, atheists are anti-theist. There's an agenda at work here.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
and i can respect a christian who turns away from the evil ways of their god, like this one:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmPqUkB-mVE

He seems to be a very nice man with musical talents, who has gone astray by believing the lies ot the creature over the truth of the Creator. Perhaps, one day he will realize the illogic of his thinking and turn back to the truth. It is a shame that he is trying to use his talent to turn others away from Christ and the truth of the Holy Bible and believe in a theory of man, influenced by Satan.

Originally posted by humy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmPqUkB-mVE

I havn't the time to watch all of it but I noticed he said about ~54 secs into the video:

“...you know, there really isn't any evidence for a God.
And, think about it, if there really was evidence for a God, by now somebody would have won the Noble prise for proving it.... many scientists would be jumping at the chance to prove it...”

That is a pretty good point.

You said to Suzianne, "I did not say nor imply nor do I claim or believe that faith equates with an evil nature." Yet, when VoidSpirit says, "...i can respect a christian who turns away from the evil ways of their god,,," you have nothing but support to say to him.

Science has no way of proving the existence of God, who is Spirit. He can only be spiritually discerned. Science can only point out effects of God, such as design in nature. So no nobel science prize can be obtained by physically proving the spiritual. It ain't going to happen.

Originally posted by Suzianne

I did not say nor imply nor do I claim or believe that faith equates with an evil nature.
ALL I said was that other people that have 'faith' certainly have committed atrocities; which is true.

No, I know you didn't claim it. I've no idea whether you believe it or not. But you're still confusing the two, especially since you keep saying peop o question. By definition, atheists are anti-theist. There's an agenda at work here.

No, I know you didn't claim it. I've no idea whether you believe it or not.

I just said I don't.

But you're still confusing the two, especially since you keep saying people of faith commit atrocities.

No.
The reason why I keep saying many theists commit atrocities is because certain theists on these forums keep insisting that atheism, i.e. the absence of faith, is what causes atrocities and I keep pointing out in response that there are many theists that commit atrocities and statistics show that theists are generally more likely to commit atrocities ( which is true; I have shown links giving evidence of this ) in order to show that, IF the evidence DOES show a simple direct causal link between atheism/theism and atrocities ( and I am NOT the one claiming that there is such a simplistic causal link; note the operative word here “IF” ) then, and only then, does the evidence clearly show that, if anything, it is theism and NOT atheism that is the cause!

But being spouted by an atheist brings their "factualness" into question. By definition, atheists are anti-theist. There's an agenda at work here.

The people that collect the statistics and then report the statistical facts include scientists and probably also include a few theists. Even a few of these scenarists might also be theists. It is absurd to imply or believe that there is some kind of secrete mass any-theist agenda that would result in fabrication/distortion of the publicly available statistical evidence esp when you consider that these statistics come from a number of independent sources.

Originally posted by Suzianne
This may come as a shock to you, RJ, but Buddhists are not Satanists.

They are not Christian either. If you are not for Him you are against Him. HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord!

Originally posted by humy

Satan has really corrupted your mind to believe the ….

there is no Satan to “corrupt” anything.
Where is your evidence that there is a Satan?

The parents's religion does not keep a person from becoming an Atheist.

How does that relate to my post?
And who is claiming that those theists became atheists? you? -if so: ...[text shortened]... u evidence that all those theists that you listed that committed atrocities came to be atheist?

More strawman arguments from the strawman king.

Communism is an economic (and political) perspective. Atheism deals directly with theology or "atheology" as the case may be. While Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist communism typically precludes religious organizations from legal existence, it is more for political purposes than theological ones. Churches have power over the people. The two major communistic governments of the world sought to remove power from all but the state. Hence the eradication of religious groups. Keep in mind however that the Greek Orthodox church continued to exist in some form during the entire reign of Soviet Communism, the Roman Catholic church enjoyed a certain degree of freedom during Czechoslovakia's communist era (now two separate countries Czech Republic and Slovakia, with parliamentary democracies, Roman Catholics make up the largest religious group in both countries), and although it was repressed so does Buddhism in China.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Are_communists_atheists

Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it."

(Matthew 16:16-18 NKJV)