1. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Apr '12 01:47
    I contend that a constant embrace of doubt offers people a way to resist the intellectual and spiritual constraints of ideology, a means of resisting religionist dogma and its purported "authority", and resisting speculation being turned into "certainty" which in turn becomes a crutch which so often seems, in turn, to extinguish genuine curiosity. Doubt helps to save us from turning any of these things into - or allowing them to become - "a meaning of life", which I think is rather tragic. Doubt is healthy. It is positive. It is life-affirming. It is the essence of informed free will.

    Does anyone see doubt in a similar light?
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    16 Apr '12 02:04
    Originally posted by FMF
    I contend that a constant embrace of doubt offers people a way to resist the intellectual and spiritual constraints of ideology, a means of resisting religionist dogma and its purported "authority", and resisting speculation being turned into "certainty" which in turn becomes a crutch which so often seems, in turn, to extinguish genuine curiosity. Doubt helps to ...[text shortened]... ing. It is the essence of informed free will.

    Does anyone see doubt in a similar light?
    Skeptics :-)

    http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/saganbur.htm
  3. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    16 Apr '12 02:09
    Originally posted by FMF
    I contend that a constant embrace of doubt offers people a way to resist the intellectual and spiritual constraints of ideology, a means of resisting religionist dogma and its purported "authority", and resisting speculation being turned into "certainty" which in turn becomes a crutch which so often seems, in turn, to extinguish genuine curiosity. Doubt helps to ...[text shortened]... ing. It is the essence of informed free will.

    Does anyone see doubt in a similar light?
    I do. It's a good tool to avoid wasting too much time following bad ideas, which seem far more numerous than good ideas.
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    16 Apr '12 02:10
    Originally posted by FMF
    I contend that a constant embrace of doubt offers people a way to resist the intellectual and spiritual constraints of ideology, a means of resisting religionist dogma and its purported "authority", and resisting speculation being turned into "certainty" which in turn becomes a crutch which so often seems, in turn, to extinguish genuine curiosity. Doubt helps to ...[text shortened]... ing. It is the essence of informed free will.

    Does anyone see doubt in a similar light?
    Are you certain of this? 😛
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Apr '12 02:32
    Originally posted by whodey
    Are you certain of this? 😛
    A genuine answer would be more interesting.
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    16 Apr '12 05:13
    Originally posted by FMF
    I contend that a constant embrace of doubt offers people a way to resist the intellectual and spiritual constraints of ideology, a means of resisting religionist dogma and its purported "authority", and resisting speculation being turned into "certainty" which in turn becomes a crutch which so often seems, in turn, to extinguish genuine curiosity. Doubt helps to ...[text shortened]... ing. It is the essence of informed free will.

    Does anyone see doubt in a similar light?
    I agree with some of this insomuch as having doubts myself. However doubt is not for me, the same thing as unbelief. Doubt springs (as you frame it) from a natural inquisitiveness from never being 100% sure, from needing to rely on faith. And there is where many will part intellectual company. My religion is my faith; except it's not a religion because my doubt prevents it becoming that; it's still faith though, it's given, and not actually a choice.
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    16 Apr '12 05:27
    Originally posted by FMF
    I contend that a constant embrace of doubt offers people a way to resist the intellectual and spiritual constraints of ideology, a means of resisting religionist dogma and its purported "authority", and resisting speculation being turned into "certainty" which in turn becomes a crutch which so often seems, in turn, to extinguish genuine curiosity. Doubt helps to ...[text shortened]... ing. It is the essence of informed free will.

    Does anyone see doubt in a similar light?
    (James 1:6-8) . . .for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and
    blown about.  In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from
    Jehovah;  he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways.
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Apr '12 05:432 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    (James 1:6-8) . . .for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and
    blown about.  In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from
    Jehovah;  he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways.
    Yes, well, what else would a writer trying to establish corporate Christianity - a package of ideology, dogma and speculations-turned-into-certainties, write?
  9. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    16 Apr '12 05:44
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    (James 1:6-8) . . .for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and
    blown about.  In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from
    Jehovah;  he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways.
    Hmm, you cut off the first part of James 1:6. I'd like to go back a bit further.
    5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.
    The part I find interesting here is 'if you lack wisdom'. I don't read this as a guarantee that God will give you anything and everything you ask for, but rather that you will be given wisdom. Am I reading this wrong?
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    16 Apr '12 06:07
    Originally posted by FMF
    Yes, well, what else would a writer trying to establish corporate Christianity - a package of ideology, dogma and speculations-turned-into-certainties, write?
    mere unsubstantiated opinion will not carry it FMF, you may like to try to make reference to the actual content of the quotation.
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Apr '12 06:082 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    mere unsubstantiated opinion will not carry it FMF, you may like to try to make reference to the actual content of the quotation.
    Your religionist literature tells you to be certain that your religionist literature is right. This is not for me, robbie.

    The content? I am not a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. I do not acknowledge "the Lord" as you perceive and present him, let alone expect to receive anything from him. I am not double-minded and unstable in all I do. There. Refuted, as far as my spiritual path is concerned.
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    16 Apr '12 06:14
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Hmm, you cut off the first part of James 1:6. I'd like to go back a bit further.[quote]5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 T ...[text shortened]... d everything you ask for, but rather that you will be given wisdom. Am I reading this wrong?
    Yes i think you are correct, its not an carte blanche guarantee that you will receive
    everything or anything but wisdom, yes, that's sound. Never the less contrast this with
    FMF's assertions that doubt is a positive quality leading to intellectual curiosity or such
    like terms, likely to lead to a moral morass of greyness subject to the winds of social
    convention which is the darling of all secular liberalists, whereas he here we are talking
    of practicalities, of the application of knowledge in order to act wisely with discernment.
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Apr '12 06:16
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Yes i think you are correct, its not an carte blanche guarantee that you will receive
    everything or anything but wisdom, yes, that's sound. Never the less contrast this with
    FMF's assertions that doubt is a positive quality leading to intellectual curiosity or such
    like terms, likely to lead to a moral morass of greyness subject to the winds o ...[text shortened]...
    of practicalities, of the application of knowledge in order to act wisely with discernment.
    What "moral morass" are you alleging there is in my life, robbie?
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    16 Apr '12 06:17
    Originally posted by FMF
    Your religionist literature tells you to be certain that your religionist literature is right. This is not for me, robbie.

    The content? I am not a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. I do not acknowledge "the Lord" as you perceive and present him, let alone expect to receive anything from him. I am not double-minded and unstable in all I do. There. Refuted, as far as my spiritual path is concerned.
    Hmmmm, i think you are very sensitive to social convention FMF, politically correct
    speech and liberal values which change from epoch to epoch, blown by the
    ever-changing seas of secular morality.
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    16 Apr '12 06:191 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    What "moral morass" are you alleging there is in my life, robbie?
    I am not alleging anything in your life FMF, i am merely asserting that because of
    changes in social convention, your own morality has been formed, are you denying
    that this is the case? Indeed one is left with the question, as you have stated your not
    a religionists, where then does the values which form your morality come from? One is
    left with the conclusion, from the society which surrounds you, where else? If this is
    the case, then clearly its susceptible to change, is it not?
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