Doubt good, certainty bad

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Hmmmm, i think you are very sensitive to social convention FMF, politically correct
speech and liberal values which change from epoch to epoch, blown by the
ever-changing seas of secular morality.

So what if you think this?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am not alleging anything in your life FMF, i am merely asserting that because of
changes in social convention, your own morality has been formed, are you denying
that this is the case?

What is the stuff about "FMF's assertions that doubt is a positive quality leading to intellectual curiosity or such like terms, likely to lead to a moral morass of greyness" then?

Originally posted by FMF
What is the stuff about "FMF's assertions that doubt is a positive quality leading to intellectual curiosity or such like terms, likely to lead to a moral morass of greyness" then?

where does your morality get its values from FMF, you have not stated. I am asserting
that its from the society in which you live. If that is the case then clearly its
susceptible to change based on social convention. Are you denying that this is the
case, If so, on what basis? If it is the case thencleary you are being blown around like
a wave of the sea depending on the prevailing moral point of view.

Can you provide a single instance where you have opposed the prevailing moral point
of view with one that is contrary to your contemporaries? If not, then you are a wave
that is being tossed hither and zither by the winds of convention.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
where does your morality get its values from FMF, you have not stated.

I have stated many times, robbie. In posts addressed directly to you. Anyway, the point is, I do not accept "James" to be an "authority" of any kind, so his pronouncement on "doubt" is not relevant or applicable to me. I don't wish to persuade you to change you mind so that you concur with my OP. I asked for people's thoughts on it. You have given me a quote from your religion's literature that has the word "doubt" in it. I'd more interested in your own original ideas on the world I wrote in the OP.

Originally posted by FMF
I have stated many times, robbie. In posts addressed directly to you. Anyway, the point is, I do not accept "James" to be an "authority" of any kind, so his pronouncement on "doubt" is not relevant or applicable to me. I don't wish to persuade you to change you mind so that you concur with my OP. I asked for people's thoughts on it. You have given me a quote fro n it. I'd more interested in your own original ideas on the world I wrote in the OP.

You still have not stated FMF, why not? My memory fails me, could you reiterate it once
more?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Yes i think you are correct, its not an carte blanche guarantee that you will receive
everything or anything but wisdom, yes, that's sound. Never the less contrast this with
FMF's assertions that doubt is a positive quality leading to intellectual curiosity or such
like terms, likely to lead to a moral morass of greyness subject to the winds o ...[text shortened]...
of practicalities, of the application of knowledge in order to act wisely with discernment.

Well, putting FMF aside for a moment, I'd like to bring the focus back to doubt.

Your JW friend galveston75 presented an excellent case in another thread for the idea that there is no eternal torment of souls in hell, but rather they just permanently die. In other words, he applied doubt to the prevailing theology of Hell. Isn't doubt a useful tool, even to the theist towards people of the same holy book, in eliminating false doctrines?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
...cleary you are being blown around like a wave of the sea depending on the prevailing moral point of view.

I already understand that this is your opinion because you quoted a book that mentioned "being blown around like a wave of the sea".

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
You still have not stated FMF, why not? My memory fails me, could you reiterate it once
more?

Not really. I started this thread in order to get into a discussion about "doubt" with the terms of reference that I laid out in the OP. If you want to start a thread taking off in the direction that you seem to be intent on, please do.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Well, putting FMF aside for a moment, I'd like to bring the focus back to doubt.

To be fair, I would also like to see "doubt" and my OP discussed.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Well, putting FMF aside for a moment, I'd like to bring the focus back to doubt.

Your JW friend galveston75 presented an excellent case in another thread for the idea that there is no eternal torment of souls in hell, but rather they just permanently die. In other words, he applied doubt to the evangelical/protestant theology of Hell. Isn't doubt a us ...[text shortened]... tool, even to the theist towards people of the same holy book, in eliminating false doctrines?

Hmmm, one does not take the props of the mine shaft down all at once, its like the
castled position of the King, we loosen the mortar first rather than hit our heads off the
castle walls, but i understand that in this instance there was enough doubt poured upon
the teaching to stimulate intellectual curiosity, so yes in this instance it led to the wise
choice of questioning the teaching.

Originally posted by FMF
I contend that a constant embrace of doubt offers people a way to resist the intellectual and spiritual constraints of ideology, a means of resisting religionist dogma and its purported "authority", and resisting speculation being turned into "certainty" which in turn becomes a crutch which so often seems, in turn, to extinguish genuine curiosity. Doubt helps to ...[text shortened]... ing. It is the essence of informed free will.

Does anyone see doubt in a similar light?

Doubt is a good thing when one is dealing with uncertainty, but has no value when confronted with the truth.

To doubt the truth is mind numbingly stupid. To doubt that something is true when one doesn't have all the facts is healthy.

For example: There is no doubt that human beings know very little about anything.

OR

It is doubtful there is any human being that knows everything.

Originally posted by FMF
To be fair, I would also like to see "doubt" and my OP discussed.

no argument here. doubt is the essence of human ingenuity.

Originally posted by josephw
Doubt is a good thing when one is dealing with uncertainty, but has no value when confronted with the truth.

actually, doubt is most useful when confronted with truth.

Originally posted by josephw
To doubt the truth is mind numbingly stupid.

By "truth" you mean Jesus is our saviour?

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
actually, doubt is most useful when confronted with truth.

Do you doubt you will die someday?

To doubt the truth is living in denial. Very unhealthy.