Dude it's karma

Originally posted by josephw
I wasn't on the defensive Ghost.

[b]"Does the modern Christian not believe that mankind has paid the price for the original 'bad karma' and that they were saved as a result of the 'good karma' of Jesus and his atonement?"

No. In no way is a man able to pay for their sins except by death. "The wages of sin is death". The price of redemption was a pe ...[text shortened]... uld pay. Simple. That's it. No more blathering on about anything else as an option to the Truth.[/b]

I believe sir you have misread my post, and that is the truth of it. 🙂

By 'paid the price' I meant 'met the consequences' of Adam's original sin, not that man had somehow cleared the debt by himself.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I believe sir you have misread my post, and that is the truth of it. 🙂

By 'paid the price' I meant 'met the consequences' of Adam's original sin, not that man had somehow cleared the debt by himself.

Well, I'm sorry if you think I misread your post, but I think you should be clearer.

Sin isn't just the bad things we do. Sin is a condition of the heart. The bad things we do are the symptoms of a deeper malady. Reaping and sowing are the outward manifestations of the disease. Jesus is the cure altogether for the disease.

Originally posted by josephw
Well, I'm sorry if you think I misread your post, but I think you should be clearer.

Sin isn't just the bad things we do. Sin is a condition of the heart. The bad things we do are the symptoms of a deeper malady. Reaping and sowing are the outward manifestations of the disease. Jesus is the cure altogether for the disease.

Any clearer and you'd been able to brush your teeth in me.

Less haste more speed sir.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Any clearer and you'd been able to brush your teeth in me.

Less haste more speed sir.

Perhaps I'm not sure just what it is you're driving at. Are you asking a question you don't know the answer to, or are you trying to make a point?

I going as fast as I can without crashing. 😉

Originally posted by josephw
Perhaps I'm not sure just what it is you're driving at. Are you asking a question you don't know the answer to, or are you trying to make a point?

I going as fast as I can without crashing. 😉

Perhaps 'paid the price' is just an English expression?

'Jeremy went out on a rainy day and paid the price for not having an umbrella."
"Bob got a D in his Geography exam and paid the price for his poor revision."

"Christian Dave was born in sin, having paid the price for the original sin committed by Adam."

'Paying the price' is reaping what you sow, and reaping what you sow is karma dude.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
If a Christian believes they have been born into original sin (as a result of Adam's first sin) is this not a case of paying the price?

Now I see what you were trying to get at.

It was poorly worded in a couple of ways:
For one, you wrote "has paid the price" rather than "is paying the price" making it sound as if the price has already been paid.
For another, "paid the price" is a poor choice of words given "paid the ransom" rhetoric that is so often cited by "modern Christians" which is about something else altogether.

Of course there's also the problem that the entire premise of your OP is so poorly thought out.

Perhaps you continue to "pay the price" for your insomnia.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Now I see what you were trying to get at.

It was poorly worded in a couple of ways:
For one, you wrote "has paid the price" rather than "is paying the price" making it sound as if the price has already been paid.
For another, "paid the price" is a poor choice of words given "paid the ransom" rhetoric that is so often cited by "modern Christians" whic ...[text shortened]... your OP is so poorly thought out.

Perhaps you continue to "pay the price" for your insomnia.

Would be interested to hear why you think the OP is poorly thought out, rather than just a review of my chosen vocabulary. - If you do indeed see what I was trying to get at, what problem do you have with it? Do you not agree that most religions are seemingly unified in 'reaping what you sow' thinkology? (I made up the last word to give you something to grumble about)

And as an aside, I said 'has paid the price' rather than 'is paying the price' as I was under the impression that the whole 'Jesus dying for our sins' thing had repaid that particular debt?!

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Perhaps 'paid the price' is just an English expression?

'Jeremy went out on a rainy day and paid the price for not having an umbrella."
"Bob got a D in his Geography exam and paid the price for his poor revision."

"Christian Dave was born in sin, having paid the price for the original sin committed by Adam."

'Paying the price' is reaping what you sow, and reaping what you sow is karma dude.

Jesus Christ paid the price for our sins debt.

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

No karma superstitious nonsense to it. Just the simple truth.

Dudester 😉

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Would be interested to hear why you think the OP is poorly thought out, rather than just a review of my chosen vocabulary. - If you do indeed see what I was trying to get at, what problem do you have with it? Do you not agree that most religions are seemingly unified in 'reaping what you sow' thinkology? (I made up the last word to give you something ...[text shortened]... the impression that the whole 'Jesus dying for our sins' thing had repaid that particular debt?!

And as an aside, I said 'has paid the price' rather than 'is paying the price' as I was under the impression that the whole 'Jesus dying for our sins' thing had repaid that particular debt?

Evidently your OP is so poorly thought out that even you have no idea of what you're trying to say.

Originally you wrote this:

Does the modern Christian not believe that mankind has paid the price for the original 'bad karma'...

So I questioned what you wrote as did JW and you wrote things such as this:

If a Christian believes they have been born into original sin (as a result of Adam's first sin) is this not a case of paying the price?

By 'paid the price' I meant 'met the consequences' of Adam's original sin, not that man had somehow cleared the debt by himself.

"Christian Dave was born in sin, having paid the price for the original sin committed by Adam."

So evidently you were claiming that you meant that mankind is paying the price for "the original sin committed by Adam".

So I pointed out that what you originally wrote was poorly worded:

It was poorly worded in a couple of ways:
For one, you wrote "has paid the price" rather than "is paying the price" making it sound as if the price has already been paid.
For another, "paid the price" is a poor choice of words given "paid the ransom" rhetoric that is so often cited by "modern Christians" which is about something else altogether.

And now you're claiming the following:

I said 'has paid the price' rather than 'is paying the price' as I was under the impression that the whole 'Jesus dying for our sins' thing had repaid that particular debt?

So now you're trying to claim that what you had in mind was Jesus having paid the price?

First mankind has paid the price? Then mankind is paying the price? And now Jesus has paid the price?

And you're questioning my claim that the OP was poorly thought out? You don't even have any idea of what you were trying to say with the phrase in question.

If you do indeed see what I was trying to get at, what problem do you have with it?

I was speaking of the phrase in question. Of course that was before this latest "explanation".

Originally posted by sonship

For example I deal with the past karma of racist and sexist men who I don't even know but by virtue of being white and male have to deal with. (Well I don't HAVE to but doing nothing only makes things worse in this respect.)

The descendants of slaves and the descendants of slave owners can come together in the church are realize our com ...[text shortened]... oneness. Christ needs a stepping stone, a beachhead to turn the age.

www.localchurches.org

I don't feel guilty
and I'm not trying to remove sin.

I'm a simple man with a simple plan.

I'd rather give examples from my and others lives to illustrate points .(than expouse "Jesus philosophy" )

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I don't feel guilty
and I'm not trying to remove sin.

I'm a simple man with a simple plan.

I'd rather give examples from my and others lives to illustrate points .(than expouse "Jesus philosophy" )

"I don't feel guilty"

Guilt isn't about "feeling". It's a legal thing. One is either innocent or guilty of a crime. You're as guilty of sin as every other human being on the face of the earth.

"and I'm not trying to remove sin."

You couldn't even if you tried.

"I'm a simple man with a simple plan."

You don't have a plan. That's just some platitude you picked up somewhere.

"I'd rather give examples from my and others lives to illustrate points ."

That would be boring. You just ain't that special. Even if you think you are. 😉

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"I don't feel guilty"

Guilt isn't about "feeling". It's a legal thing. One is either innocent or guilty of a crime. You're as guilty of sin as every other human being on the face of the earth.

"and I'm not trying to remove sin."

You couldn't even if you tried.

"I'm a simple man with a simple plan."

You don't have a plan. ...[text shortened]... oints ."[/b]

That would be boring. You just ain't that special. Even if you think you are. 😉[/b]

Clearly you have no idea who I am or what it is that I do.

I don't take offence at this, rather I pity your foolish attempts to dismiss me and my ideas when I know full well that I, as everyone else, has a unique purpose and place on Earth.

I don't perpetuate sin , except by ignorance (and this is always changing).
I would go so far as to say I don't sin against anyone anymore.
I know these proclamations will fall at your feet as you dismiss them however I have given you this tentative answer for your overly presumptuous post.

Let me ask you: Do you feel compelled to dismiss anyone who doesn't come from the same faith as you (merely by their lack of Christianity)?

It's like the sexist and racist and ageist: You dismiss the content of posts that don't come from Christians from your persuasion. It is discriminatory, and hence immature.

Thank you.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]And as an aside, I said 'has paid the price' rather than 'is paying the price' as I was under the impression that the whole 'Jesus dying for our sins' thing had repaid that particular debt?

Evidently your OP is so poorly thought out that even you have no idea of what you're trying to say.

Originally you wrote this:
[quote]Does the modern Chr ...[text shortened]...
I was speaking of the phrase in question. Of course that was before this latest "explanation".[/b]

Not sure why you feel the need to do that, get caught up in semantics and looking for contradictions, rather than simply giving your opinion to the idea that 'reaping what you sow' (or karma) is common across most religions.

I get that you don't like the expression 'pay the price' so move on dude. Clearly my intent was in line with karma, and that bad actions have consequences for which we 'pay the price'. (NOT clear the debt). If you revisit my OP you'll see that I speak of Jesus there as providing the 'good karma' that removes the bad karma of original sin.(Did you miss that?! - I note you never linked to that part of my post).

The confusion, and obfuscation, is all yours sir.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
The thread makes clear we are talking about all religions and how the concept of karma or reaping what you sow unites them. (Not every thread I create has to be from an atheist perspective).

All religions are exclusive. Every religion has its starting points and its deductions, and those starting points exclude. For example, Hinduism has two non-negotiable beliefs: karma and reincarnation. No Hindu will trade these away.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Clearly you have no idea who I am or what it is that I do.

I don't take offence at this, rather I pity your foolish attempts to dismiss me and my ideas when I know full well that I, as everyone else, has a unique purpose and place on Earth.

I don't perpetuate sin , except by ignorance (and this is always changing).
I would go so far as to say I d ...[text shortened]... me from Christians from your persuasion. It is discriminatory, and hence immature.

Thank you.

"Clearly you have no idea who I am or what it is that I do."

What does it matter? We're all the same. We get up each day with the sun in our eye, a bladder full, and we put our pants on one leg at a time.