Edures to the end

Originally posted by Eladar
Actually I am right. See the op.

Those who walk away are in a worse off position compared with those who did not believe in the first place.

They are worse off, not the same as.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Those who walk away are in a worse off position compared with those who did not believe in the first place.

They are worse off, not the same as.

Is a person who knows life can be better worse off than a person who does not know?

Originally posted by Eladar
Is a person who knows life can be better worse off than a person who does not know?

Boy o boy, your head is hard like rock.

The person who knows life / Christ are in the best position.
The person who never knew in the first place is somewhere in the middle
The person who KNEW LIFE/CHRIST, AND WALKED AWAY is the the worse position.

Walking away from Christ means departing from the commandments of Christ and reverting to a life of sin and evil.

Let me know if you want the references. I wont make you read the whole NT... Its clear that you need a lot of help.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Boy o boy, your head is hard like rock.

The person who knows life / Christ are in the best position.
The person who never knew in the first place is somewhere in the middle
The person who KNEW LIFE/CHRIST, AND WALKED AWAY is the the worse position.

Walking away from Christ means departing from the commandments of Christ and reverting to a life of sin ...[text shortened]... want the references. I wont make you read the whole NT... Its clear that you need a lot of help.

2 Peter

These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18 For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” 20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”[g] and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”

Originally posted by Eladar
2 Peter

[b]These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18 For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravi ...[text shortened]... g returns to its vomit,”[g] and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”[/b]

So you know the reference. And there are more like that. Yet you want to argue that those who walk away from Christ and revert to a life of sin ..end up in the same situation as those who never believed .. ???

Peter said it is better if they did not know the way of righteousness, than to know it and turn away from it.

Glad you found the reference, maybe now you can state the correct doctrine.

Originally posted by Rajk999
So you know the reference. And there are more like that. Yet you want to argue that those who walk away from Christ and revert to a life of sin ..end up in the same situation as those who never believed .. ???

Peter said it is better if they did not know the way of righteousness, than to know it and turn away from it.

Glad you found the reference, maybe now you can state the correct doctrine.

So tell me where in the Bible it describes exactly how it will be worse.

Originally posted by Eladar
So tell me where in the Bible it describes exactly how it will be worse.

You mean II Peter 2 does not do it for you?. Peter said ... the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. .. Thought you would see that and understand that those who do not know Christ are better off. You are one of those missing the language comprehension skills.

Ok here is another one God put in just for you.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (Hebrews 10:26-29 KJV)

A punishment worse than death awaits those who reject Christ if they continue to sin willfully.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You mean II Peter 2 does not do it for you?. Peter said ... the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. .. Thought you would see that and understand that those who do not know Christ are better off. You are one of those missing the language comprehension skills.

Ok here is another one God put in just for you.

[i]For if we sin wilf ...[text shortened]...
A punishment worse than death awaits those who reject Christ if they continue to sin willfully.

How is it worse than death?

Originally posted by Eladar
How is it worse than death?

Worse than death is torment.

Next question.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Worse than death is torment.

Next question.

Why is it worse? How will it be worse?

Of course the question is compared to others who reject God.

Originally posted by Eladar
Why is it worse? How will it be worse?

Of course the question is compared to others who reject God.

Compared to others who reject God?

You are not paying attention...I will explain again.

In both passages there are 3 groups of people:

1. Christians who are righteous
2. Others who dont know of Christ
3. Christians who sin

Originally posted by Rajk999
Compared to others who reject God?

You are not paying attention...I will explain again.

In both passages there are 3 groups of people:

1. Christians who are righteous
2. Others who dont know of Christ
3. Christians who sin

I'll work with your three groups.

How are 2 and 3 going to fair differently on the day of judgment?

Originally posted by Eladar
I'll work with your three groups.

How are 2 and 3 going to fair differently on the day of judgment?

How it is going to different is a separate matter.

The fact that IT IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT is what the Apostles are saying.
First, accept that and then we will proceed.
You are trying to confuse the issue.

Are you doubting that it is going to be different?
If you are then you are in conflict with what the Apostles are saying.

Peter said
better if they did not know the way of righteousness, than to know it and turn away from it

And .. the latter end is worse with them than the beginning..

Paul said:
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God,

Originally posted by Rajk999
How it is going to different is a separate matter.

The fact that IT IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT is what the Apostles are saying.
First, accept that and then we will proceed.
You are trying to confuse the issue.

Are you doubting that it is going to be different?
If you are then you are in conflict with what the Apostles are saying.

Peter said
be ...[text shortened]... ishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God,

I am asking how? I have presented one way it could be worse. You denied it, so I am wondering how you believe it will be worse according to the Bible.

Originally posted by Eladar
I am asking how? I have presented one way it could be worse. You denied it, so I am wondering how you believe it will be worse according to the Bible.

You presented no such thing.

You said that "..They end up in the same situation as those who never believed.

You say SAME SITUATION

Did the Apostles say same situation?