Originally posted by Eladar
Under what condition would you expel a brother who has sinned?

So are you going to make it right about the falsehoods you said about me

Originally posted by KellyJay
So are you going to make it right about the falsehoods you said about me

I am still unsure. You do call Suzi sister and she does not know God.

Under what cindition.

Btw, what did you really think I meant when I wrote that they are both spirits and both take up residence in hearts?

Originally posted by FMF
Oh well, yet another thread of dogmatic interest to some Christians only, and of no spiritual value, substance or relevance to anyone else.

It is of no relevance to those who have given up?

Originally posted by dj2becker
It is of no relevance to those who have given up?

It is of no relevance to those who don't believe the dogma regarding the supposed threatened consequences (those who have "given up" as you put it). Obviously it's of no relevance to them. It's just a case of Christians posturing and occasionally seeking to land little holier-than-thou blows on one another's chins concerning their doctrine.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

What happens to those that walk away?

In Matthew 10:22 the "saved" probably means "saved" from those who hate us as followers of Jesus.

Saved through this great tribulation to enter into the millennial kingdom as a reward. The hidden kingdom within becomes the manifested kingdom without - outwardly now in glory. Enduring through the tribulation will eventually end in the followers of Jesus being saved into that new age.

This differs from eternal salvation as we are taught in Ephesians 2:8.

As a point of interest, know that in the early centuries of the church under severe persecution, some Christians apparently caved in and recanted to save themselves from death or torture.

One of the early controversies was what to do with such believers. Should they or should they not be allowed to re-enter the fellowship of the Christians after these sore times were over.

This was a theological issue in the early centuries.
Of course once a man is born of God he cannot be unborn of God.
Eternal redemption and eternal salvation are the gift in grace not the wages owed for having endured suffering.

The reward of reigning with Christ in the millennium is different. That is a reward.

Originally posted by Eladar
I am still unsure. You do call Suzi sister and she does not know God.

Under what cindition.

Btw, what did you really think I meant when I wrote that they are both spirits and both take up residence in hearts?

Frankly she has nothing to do with what you said about me. You can be unsure about a lot
of things, and not make claims I was okay with sin which I'm not, you can be unsure about
a lot of things and not say I was saying things about you that were not true. I quoted to
you more than once that which I had issues with, nothing about what I said was not true.
You even said you left a word out or something which changed the meaning of what you
wrote, which I accepted and moved on, until you repeated that claim to someone else.


No, God will not reside with an evil spirit. You do not seem to have a solid grasp about
the spiritual world. You started part of our conversation giving Satan much more credit
than what he deservers, why would anyone do that?

Originally posted by sonship
In [b]Matthew 10:22 the "saved" probably means "saved" from those who hate us as followers of Jesus.

Saved through this great tribulation to enter into the millennial kingdom as a reward. The hidden kingdom within becomes the manifested kingdom without - outwardly now in glory. Enduring through the tribulation will eventually end in the ...[text shortened]... fering.

The reward of reigning with Christ in the millennium is different. That is a reward.[/b]

This is the reason why your false doctrines will continue.: Of course once a man is born of God he cannot be unborn of God.

Placing Of course..., before an unbiblical statement., is the height of self-deception
Nowhere will you find this ... once a man is born of God he cannot be unborn of God. in the Bible.

You will find plenty saying the opposite however.

Originally posted by FMF
It is of no relevance to those who don't believe the dogma regarding the supposed threatened consequences (those who have "given up" as you put it). Obviously it's of no relevance to them. It's just a case of Christians posturing and occasionally seeking to land little holier-than-thou blows on one another's chins concerning their doctrine.

It is only of relevance if it is true.

Originally posted by dj2becker
It is only of relevance if it is true.

Whatever dogma you happen to memorize and recite about the fate of ex-believers, no matter how adamant you are about its "truth", it is irrelevant to non-believers in the same way as something like Hindu beliefs about reincarnation are irrelevant to both you and me.

Originally posted by FMF
Whatever dogma you happen to memorize and recite about the fate of ex-believers, no matter how adamant you are about its "truth", it is irrelevant to non-believers in the same way as something like Hindu beliefs about reincarnation are irrelevant to both you and me.

Unless it is in fact true. The truth that you will probably die if you jump out of a plane without a parachute at 10000 feet remains of relevance to you whether you believe in it or not.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Unless it is in fact true. The truth that you will probably die if you jump out of a plane without a parachute at 10000 feet remains of relevance to you whether you believe in it or not.

We can both prove beyond any doubt - to both of our satisfactions - that falling 10,000 feet onto the ground can and will kill us. It can even be demonstrated. That makes it relevant to both of us. Meanwhile, you cannot prove anything whatsoever to a non-believer with regard to your superstitious doctrines about the fate that will befall people who have different beliefs from you, so that makes you and other Christians ruminating over these doctrines and making assertions about them relevant only to you. Your ruminations consist of no life-affecting substance or spiritual value to people who aren't adherents to your religion.

Originally posted by FMF
We can both prove beyond any doubt - to both of our satisfactions - that falling 10,000 feet onto the ground can and will kill us. It can even be demonstrated. That makes it relevant to both of us. Meanwhile, you cannot prove anything whatsoever to a non-believer with regard to your superstitious doctrines about the fate that will befall people who have differen ...[text shortened]... no life-affecting substance or spiritual value to people who aren't adherents to your religion.

Truth is 'relevant' or 'applicable' to all people whether the people believe in the truth or not. Yes you can dismiss my beliefs as superstition, but if they are in fact true then they are applicable to you whether you believe in them or not.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Truth is 'relevant' or 'applicable' to all people whether the people believe in the truth or not.

You should be making your assertions about what happens to ex-Christians after they die to people who are still Christians and who subscribe to your claims about the truth and share your beliefs in this matter. It's all completely unbelievable and irrelevant to ex-Christians.

Originally posted by FMF
You should be making your assertions about what happens to ex-Christians after they die to people who are still Christians and who subscribe to your claims about the truth and share your beliefs in this matter. It's all completely unbelievable and irrelevant to ex-Christians.

Truth is relevant or applicable to all people whether they believe in it or not.

Originally posted by Rajk999
This is the reason why your false doctrines will continue.: Of course once a man is born of God he cannot be unborn of God.

Placing Of course..., before an unbiblical statement., is the height of self-deception
Nowhere will you find this ... once a man is born of God he cannot be unborn of God. in the Bible.

You will find plenty saying the opposite however.

You have been refuted multiple times - each year.
It is futile to re-refute the same heretic every other day.

It is of no apparent profit to YOU.
You don't even know what it is to be born again apparently from past conversations.

You mangled John 3 about the new birth.
It is no wonder that you have little to no assurance of salvation.

A true very tragic case of deception you are.