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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. 10 Mar '12 20:46
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Some people say that I am an embarrassment to the Christians on this forum.
    There was one Christian in the past that said I should tone down the way I
    present Christianity. I have made an effort to do that. Sometimes I forget.
    However, I was wondering how many Christians look at me with embarrassment.
    perhaps a scripture might help.

    (Colossians 4:6) . . .Let your utterance be always with graciousness, seasoned with
    salt, so as to know how you ought to give an answer to each one.
  2. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    10 Mar '12 20:58 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    perhaps a scripture might help.

    (Colossians 4:6) . . .Let your utterance be always with graciousness, seasoned with
    salt, so as to know how you ought to give an answer to each one.
    Are you suggesting that I might be using a pinch of salt too much?

    P.S. On second thought, you may be referring to graciousness.
    I had to look that word up since it is not one I normally use.

    Definition of GRACIOUS

    1
    a. obsolete: godly
    b. archaic: pleasing, acceptable

    2
    a: marked by kindness and courtesy <a gracious host>
    b: graceful
    c: marked by tact and delicacy : urbane
    d: characterized by charm, good taste, generosity of spirit, and the tasteful
    leisure of wealth and good breeding <gracious living>

    3
    a: merciful, compassionate —used conventionally of royalty and high nobility

    I hope you are referring to definition 1a. Godly
    For even Jesus was not always pleasing and acceptable to everyone.
  3. 10 Mar '12 21:09
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Well, I think my brand of Christianity is far less insane than the brand of
    atheisim that believes evolution is a proven fact and the unniverse came into
    existence by an explosion or "Big Bang" from no telling what.
    My advise is get the "my, I, myself, my opinion, I believe, I'm right, I think," out of your explinations and show all of what you say you know can actually be proved by scripture. If it is the truth and right by scripture, let the Bible speak for you and we all would respect you more. Then its not you that people would attack and then it would not become personal and you would not respond in a way back that's made our opinion of you so negative.
    And believe it or not you COULD be wrong on your opinion of what you read in the Bible.....
  4. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    10 Mar '12 21:19
    Originally posted by galveston75
    My advise is get the "my, I, myself, my opinion, I believe, I'm right, I think," out of your explinations and show all of what you say you know can actually be proved by scripture. If it is the truth and right by scripture, let the Bible speak for you and we all would respect you more. Then its not you that people would attack and then it would not becom ...[text shortened]... And believe it or not you COULD be wrong on your opinion of what you read in the Bible.....
    You know that does not work. These atheists don't respect God's word even
    when I give reference to it, which I often do. That just makes them more
    determined to reject it. Even when I discuss things with you JWs and give
    scripture to back it up, you just try to twist the meaning to fit the Watchtower's
    false teachings.
  5. 10 Mar '12 21:37 / 5 edits
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Are you suggesting that I might be using a pinch of salt too much?

    P.S. On second thought, you may be referring to graciousness.
    I had to look that word up since it is not one I normally use.

    Definition of GRACIOUS

    1
    a. obsolete: godly
    b. archaic: pleasing, acceptable

    2
    a: marked by kindness and courtesy <a gracious host>
    b: graceful ...[text shortened]... ring to definition 1a. Godly
    For even Jesus was not always pleasing and acceptable to everyone.
    What Paul is saying is that you should make your statements more palatable, that is
    what salt does literally to a dish, makes it more palatable. No one is saying that you
    should water down the content of your message, but you can gently through a ball so
    that the recipient can catch it or you can hurl it with venom. People remember the way
    you make them feel more that the content of what you say, if you had a public ministry
    you would know that, but you dont.

    I have not seen any evidence of either empathy or compassion in your texts which
    leads me to believe that you really need to study the example and life of Jesus, for
    clearly he exemplified both, you may even be 'grieving', the Holy Spirit because of
    some of your anti Christian beliefs, like the justification of war and adoption of
    pagan beliefs like the trinity, thus rather than displaying the fruitage of the spirit,
    'love joy peace etc', you are displaying the spirit of the world, 'contentiousness,
    strife' etc
  6. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    10 Mar '12 22:17 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    What Paul is saying is that you should make your statements more palatable, that is
    what salt does literally to a dish, makes it more palatable. No one is saying that you
    should water down the content of your message, but you can gently through a ball so
    that the recipient can catch it or you can hurl it with venom. People remember the way
    oy peace etc', you are displaying the spirit of the world, 'contentiousness,
    strife' etc
    Paul's advice is good for people like Paul, who had a public ministry and
    depended on donations to support it. But like you say I do not have a public
    ministry and do not want any donations so I believe I can be blunt and tell
    it like it is. I care about presenting the truth and not winning a popularity
    contest. If somebody can prove me wrong concerning my interpretation of
    scripture or provide me with some insight I have missed that relates to the
    teachings of Christ, I would be glad for it. We must understand that Paul
    writes to specific audiences for specific purposes and we must not always
    take his writings out of context and make them a general rule of thumb. Also
    I am not interested in making everyone feel good about themselves. We have
    too many preachers doing that already. I want to wake them up to the truth
    of scripture, even if I have to kick them in balls. I am not the type of person
    that wants to sugar coat God's message to trick them in to thinking I am a
    good Christian. I don't believe I am a good Christian. I believe I am a true
    Christian passing on the truth of God and Christ, with the help of the Holy
    Spirit.
  7. 10 Mar '12 22:59
    Originally posted by galveston75
    And believe it or not you COULD be wrong on your opinion of what you read in the Bible.....
    A pill from your own bottle...?
  8. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    10 Mar '12 23:34
    Originally posted by divegeester
    A pill from your own bottle...?
    Maybe it is that smart pill again. Ha ha 😀
  9. 11 Mar '12 00:41
    Originally posted by divegeester
    A pill from your own bottle...?
    You seem to have a BIG pill bottle at times...Right?
  10. 11 Mar '12 00:55
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You know that does not work. These atheists don't respect God's word even
    when I give reference to it, which I often do. That just makes them more
    determined to reject it. Even when I discuss things with you JWs and give
    scripture to back it up, you just try to twist the meaning to fit the Watchtower's
    false teachings.
    Well yes it does completely work. We are taught by our ministry schools to never be rude, put downs ones faith or beliefs. Did Jesus ever do that when talking to ones he met? Many he met were not of his teachings or maybe didn't even believe in a God, just as we have many here. But Jesus would listen and then REASON with them and use such things as examples or parables. And then if nothing would work and the person did not listen he simply said thank you and walked away.
    But he certianly did not tel, them how stupid or dumb or ignorent they were even if that were the truth because they didn't believe as he did.
    And that accomplished a couple things. First if he had been blunt and rude during the conversation, what results would that bring? Maybe a fist fight, or yelling match as often happens here for you and a few others? Second that person would probably never allow Jesus to approach them again as most here get tired of you.
    But the positive things that could come out of being kind and non confrontive and following Jesus's example of tenderness to all he met was the conversion of many, many people. And if not then, he would have left such a pleasent impression on them of what he was teaching that just maybe he had planted a seed and that in turn would possibly grow in them at another time and become receptive to his teachings.

    So you started this thread asking what we all think of your MO here and now that we are answering, well, your still being rude and you started this thread. Kind of funny to me.


    RAJK are you listening in here?
  11. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    11 Mar '12 01:25
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Well yes it does completely work. We are taught by our ministry schools to never be rude, put downs ones faith or beliefs. Did Jesus ever do that when talking to ones he met? Many he met were not of his teachings or maybe didn't even believe in a God, just as we have many here. But Jesus would listen and then REASON with them and use such things as examp ...[text shortened]... thread. Kind of funny to me.


    RAJK are you listening in here?
    This may be true, but I was wondering if any Christians on here were
    embarrassed by me. I have heard from some that believe Christians
    are embarrassed by me.
  12. 11 Mar '12 01:29
    Hey,

    OK, well I feel it necessary to first mention that I'm an atheist. I don't know whether or not you care for my advice; but I'm going to give it anyhow. I'll start at the start.

    I've always loved arguing and debating religion and the existance of God. One of my good friends is a very religious individual, and as such I've had the opportunity (these past 4 years of highschool) to talk with him and debate. In general our debates degenarte into shouting matches. I used to be very arrogant about my particular beliefs (or lack thereof). I was 100% convinced that I was right, and my friend (and other religious folks) were all wrong in regards to God and religion in general. This was further strengthened by the fact that I was the stronger debater of the two...the sole arguments my friend could bring up were: "You're wrong...You can't understand God...etc"

    However, and it was last year, that this happened...I got into a debate on religion with someone else I hadn't really talked to much before. I started as I usually start - a strong agressive opening (generally questioning the logical existance of God - see paradox of power), which immediately would have served to bring most people on the defense, and thus give me the advantage. In arguments I generally tend to move my right arm up and move it in rhythm with my speech.
    Now the ironic thing: she was smiling. She didn't seem angry, she didn't seem to want to go on a rant about how I'm gonna end up in hell. She didn't even try to stop me mid-sentence. What she did say after I had finished my 5 minute speech:
    "You're basically asking me whether an irresistable force can affect an immovable object." I confirmed that that was indeed my point. She then said that my question was illogical. In order for something to be either immovable or irresistable, that something must contain the majority of energy in a particular system. No system can have two majorities. A universe in which there exists such a thing as an irresistible force is, by definition, a universe which cannot also contain an immovable object. The opposite is also true. Just because I have a sentence which makes grammatical sense, does not necessarily mean it makes logical sense.
    Now later at home, I found out, off the wikipedia article, that she had done in-depth research before...
    Anyway, I was flabbergasted. I felt as if I had been struck by lightning. I'd never encountered in my life, a counterargument to the paradox of strength. It's worth noting, that she wasn't even remotely smug about her victory. No trace of irony or sarcasm in our later conversations (opposite of my own smug and arrogantly worded opening introduction to the debate).

    Anyway my point is, she basically won that argument, not by quoting the Bible, not by calling me a heretic, not by saying I'm going to go to hell; but by unquestionable logic. Her wording was the very opposite of harsh, or accusatory. It's a fact when I say that she's one of the nicest people I've met.

    My friend, if you wish to beneficially expose your views, I would suggest you follow a model similar to the one taken by the person I mentioned above. I have tried to, since then, to no longer argue the existence of God. I've switched to argue solely against the institution of religion...and I've avoided arguing about it with her. Of course, I'm still an atheist; but for me that's changed from a notion of absolute truth, to a more open minded version.

    Sorry for the essay.
  13. 11 Mar '12 01:58
    Originally posted by Ringwraith
    Anyway my point is, she basically won that argument, not by quoting the Bible, not by calling me a heretic, not by saying I'm going to go to hell; but by unquestionable logic. Her wording was the very opposite of harsh, or accusatory. It's a fact when I say that she's one of the nicest people I've met.
    indeed, if you us an illogical argument (or logical fallacy) than your argument will break down. being an atheist does not guarantee that your positions on particular subjects are logical.

    it's just a rare treat for a person of religious persuasion to be intimate with logic since the majority of their beliefs requires a suspension of logic.
  14. 11 Mar '12 02:24
    Indeed...perhaps that added to the shock I felt at that moment.
  15. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    11 Mar '12 02:34 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Ringwraith
    Hey,

    OK, well I feel it necessary to first mention that I'm an atheist. I don't know whether or not you care for my advice; but I'm going to give it anyhow. I'll start at the start.

    I've always loved arguing and debating religion and the existance of God. One of my good friends is a very religious individual, and as such I've had the opportunity (th olute truth, to a more open minded version.

    Sorry for the essay.
    I am now wondering if you have ever read the Holy Bible and if you are aware
    that the New Testament explains the Old Testament. You like someone who
    smiles at you and acts very nice. That gave you a favorable impression of her
    as a Christian. But did it make you want to study the Holy Bible to see what is
    the meaning and purpose of it's writings? Are you content to remain in the dark
    as an atheist?

    God can use all types of people in spreading the good news throughout the
    world. It just so happens, I am not one of those mild mannered, smiley types.
    But I do have some knowledge about the Holy Bible and can help you with the
    understanding that you will find hard to get on your own. However, you have
    to put in the effort to take the free gift offered to every person by God.

    P.S. However, if you become interested you may like the style of Kelly Jay or
    one of the other Christians over mine.