Originally posted by RJHindsperhaps a scripture might help.
Some people say that I am an embarrassment to the Christians on this forum.
There was one Christian in the past that said I should tone down the way I
present Christianity. I have made an effort to do that. Sometimes I forget.
However, I was wondering how many Christians look at me with embarrassment.
(Colossians 4:6) . . .Let your utterance be always with graciousness, seasoned with
salt, so as to know how you ought to give an answer to each one.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieAre you suggesting that I might be using a pinch of salt too much?
perhaps a scripture might help.
(Colossians 4:6) . . .Let your utterance be always with graciousness, seasoned with
salt, so as to know how you ought to give an answer to each one.
P.S. On second thought, you may be referring to graciousness.
I had to look that word up since it is not one I normally use.
Definition of GRACIOUS
1
a. obsolete: godly
b. archaic: pleasing, acceptable
2
a: marked by kindness and courtesy <a gracious host>
b: graceful
c: marked by tact and delicacy : urbane
d: characterized by charm, good taste, generosity of spirit, and the tasteful
leisure of wealth and good breeding <gracious living>
3
a: merciful, compassionate —used conventionally of royalty and high nobility
I hope you are referring to definition 1a. Godly
For even Jesus was not always pleasing and acceptable to everyone.
Originally posted by RJHindsMy advise is get the "my, I, myself, my opinion, I believe, I'm right, I think," out of your explinations and show all of what you say you know can actually be proved by scripture. If it is the truth and right by scripture, let the Bible speak for you and we all would respect you more. Then its not you that people would attack and then it would not become personal and you would not respond in a way back that's made our opinion of you so negative.
Well, I think my brand of Christianity is far less insane than the brand of
atheisim that believes evolution is a proven fact and the unniverse came into
existence by an explosion or "Big Bang" from no telling what.
And believe it or not you COULD be wrong on your opinion of what you read in the Bible.....
Originally posted by galveston75You know that does not work. These atheists don't respect God's word even
My advise is get the "my, I, myself, my opinion, I believe, I'm right, I think," out of your explinations and show all of what you say you know can actually be proved by scripture. If it is the truth and right by scripture, let the Bible speak for you and we all would respect you more. Then its not you that people would attack and then it would not becom ...[text shortened]... And believe it or not you COULD be wrong on your opinion of what you read in the Bible.....
when I give reference to it, which I often do. That just makes them more
determined to reject it. Even when I discuss things with you JWs and give
scripture to back it up, you just try to twist the meaning to fit the Watchtower's
false teachings.
Originally posted by RJHindsWhat Paul is saying is that you should make your statements more palatable, that is
Are you suggesting that I might be using a pinch of salt too much?
P.S. On second thought, you may be referring to graciousness.
I had to look that word up since it is not one I normally use.
Definition of GRACIOUS
1
a. obsolete: godly
b. archaic: pleasing, acceptable
2
a: marked by kindness and courtesy <a gracious host>
b: graceful ...[text shortened]... ring to definition 1a. Godly
For even Jesus was not always pleasing and acceptable to everyone.
what salt does literally to a dish, makes it more palatable. No one is saying that you
should water down the content of your message, but you can gently through a ball so
that the recipient can catch it or you can hurl it with venom. People remember the way
you make them feel more that the content of what you say, if you had a public ministry
you would know that, but you dont.
I have not seen any evidence of either empathy or compassion in your texts which
leads me to believe that you really need to study the example and life of Jesus, for
clearly he exemplified both, you may even be 'grieving', the Holy Spirit because of
some of your anti Christian beliefs, like the justification of war and adoption of
pagan beliefs like the trinity, thus rather than displaying the fruitage of the spirit,
'love joy peace etc', you are displaying the spirit of the world, 'contentiousness,
strife' etc
Originally posted by robbie carrobiePaul's advice is good for people like Paul, who had a public ministry and
What Paul is saying is that you should make your statements more palatable, that is
what salt does literally to a dish, makes it more palatable. No one is saying that you
should water down the content of your message, but you can gently through a ball so
that the recipient can catch it or you can hurl it with venom. People remember the way
oy peace etc', you are displaying the spirit of the world, 'contentiousness,
strife' etc
depended on donations to support it. But like you say I do not have a public
ministry and do not want any donations so I believe I can be blunt and tell
it like it is. I care about presenting the truth and not winning a popularity
contest. If somebody can prove me wrong concerning my interpretation of
scripture or provide me with some insight I have missed that relates to the
teachings of Christ, I would be glad for it. We must understand that Paul
writes to specific audiences for specific purposes and we must not always
take his writings out of context and make them a general rule of thumb. Also
I am not interested in making everyone feel good about themselves. We have
too many preachers doing that already. I want to wake them up to the truth
of scripture, even if I have to kick them in balls. I am not the type of person
that wants to sugar coat God's message to trick them in to thinking I am a
good Christian. I don't believe I am a good Christian. I believe I am a true
Christian passing on the truth of God and Christ, with the help of the Holy
Spirit.
Originally posted by RJHindsWell yes it does completely work. We are taught by our ministry schools to never be rude, put downs ones faith or beliefs. Did Jesus ever do that when talking to ones he met? Many he met were not of his teachings or maybe didn't even believe in a God, just as we have many here. But Jesus would listen and then REASON with them and use such things as examples or parables. And then if nothing would work and the person did not listen he simply said thank you and walked away.
You know that does not work. These atheists don't respect God's word even
when I give reference to it, which I often do. That just makes them more
determined to reject it. Even when I discuss things with you JWs and give
scripture to back it up, you just try to twist the meaning to fit the Watchtower's
false teachings.
But he certianly did not tel, them how stupid or dumb or ignorent they were even if that were the truth because they didn't believe as he did.
And that accomplished a couple things. First if he had been blunt and rude during the conversation, what results would that bring? Maybe a fist fight, or yelling match as often happens here for you and a few others? Second that person would probably never allow Jesus to approach them again as most here get tired of you.
But the positive things that could come out of being kind and non confrontive and following Jesus's example of tenderness to all he met was the conversion of many, many people. And if not then, he would have left such a pleasent impression on them of what he was teaching that just maybe he had planted a seed and that in turn would possibly grow in them at another time and become receptive to his teachings.
So you started this thread asking what we all think of your MO here and now that we are answering, well, your still being rude and you started this thread. Kind of funny to me.
RAJK are you listening in here?
Originally posted by galveston75This may be true, but I was wondering if any Christians on here were
Well yes it does completely work. We are taught by our ministry schools to never be rude, put downs ones faith or beliefs. Did Jesus ever do that when talking to ones he met? Many he met were not of his teachings or maybe didn't even believe in a God, just as we have many here. But Jesus would listen and then REASON with them and use such things as examp ...[text shortened]... thread. Kind of funny to me.
RAJK are you listening in here?
embarrassed by me. I have heard from some that believe Christians
are embarrassed by me.
Hey,
OK, well I feel it necessary to first mention that I'm an atheist. I don't know whether or not you care for my advice; but I'm going to give it anyhow. I'll start at the start.
I've always loved arguing and debating religion and the existance of God. One of my good friends is a very religious individual, and as such I've had the opportunity (these past 4 years of highschool) to talk with him and debate. In general our debates degenarte into shouting matches. I used to be very arrogant about my particular beliefs (or lack thereof). I was 100% convinced that I was right, and my friend (and other religious folks) were all wrong in regards to God and religion in general. This was further strengthened by the fact that I was the stronger debater of the two...the sole arguments my friend could bring up were: "You're wrong...You can't understand God...etc"
However, and it was last year, that this happened...I got into a debate on religion with someone else I hadn't really talked to much before. I started as I usually start - a strong agressive opening (generally questioning the logical existance of God - see paradox of power), which immediately would have served to bring most people on the defense, and thus give me the advantage. In arguments I generally tend to move my right arm up and move it in rhythm with my speech.
Now the ironic thing: she was smiling. She didn't seem angry, she didn't seem to want to go on a rant about how I'm gonna end up in hell. She didn't even try to stop me mid-sentence. What she did say after I had finished my 5 minute speech:
"You're basically asking me whether an irresistable force can affect an immovable object." I confirmed that that was indeed my point. She then said that my question was illogical. In order for something to be either immovable or irresistable, that something must contain the majority of energy in a particular system. No system can have two majorities. A universe in which there exists such a thing as an irresistible force is, by definition, a universe which cannot also contain an immovable object. The opposite is also true. Just because I have a sentence which makes grammatical sense, does not necessarily mean it makes logical sense.
Now later at home, I found out, off the wikipedia article, that she had done in-depth research before...
Anyway, I was flabbergasted. I felt as if I had been struck by lightning. I'd never encountered in my life, a counterargument to the paradox of strength. It's worth noting, that she wasn't even remotely smug about her victory. No trace of irony or sarcasm in our later conversations (opposite of my own smug and arrogantly worded opening introduction to the debate).
Anyway my point is, she basically won that argument, not by quoting the Bible, not by calling me a heretic, not by saying I'm going to go to hell; but by unquestionable logic. Her wording was the very opposite of harsh, or accusatory. It's a fact when I say that she's one of the nicest people I've met.
My friend, if you wish to beneficially expose your views, I would suggest you follow a model similar to the one taken by the person I mentioned above. I have tried to, since then, to no longer argue the existence of God. I've switched to argue solely against the institution of religion...and I've avoided arguing about it with her. Of course, I'm still an atheist; but for me that's changed from a notion of absolute truth, to a more open minded version.
Sorry for the essay.
Originally posted by Ringwraithindeed, if you us an illogical argument (or logical fallacy) than your argument will break down. being an atheist does not guarantee that your positions on particular subjects are logical.
Anyway my point is, she basically won that argument, not by quoting the Bible, not by calling me a heretic, not by saying I'm going to go to hell; but by unquestionable logic. Her wording was the very opposite of harsh, or accusatory. It's a fact when I say that she's one of the nicest people I've met.
it's just a rare treat for a person of religious persuasion to be intimate with logic since the majority of their beliefs requires a suspension of logic.
Originally posted by RingwraithI am now wondering if you have ever read the Holy Bible and if you are aware
Hey,
OK, well I feel it necessary to first mention that I'm an atheist. I don't know whether or not you care for my advice; but I'm going to give it anyhow. I'll start at the start.
I've always loved arguing and debating religion and the existance of God. One of my good friends is a very religious individual, and as such I've had the opportunity (th olute truth, to a more open minded version.
Sorry for the essay.
that the New Testament explains the Old Testament. You like someone who
smiles at you and acts very nice. That gave you a favorable impression of her
as a Christian. But did it make you want to study the Holy Bible to see what is
the meaning and purpose of it's writings? Are you content to remain in the dark
as an atheist?
God can use all types of people in spreading the good news throughout the
world. It just so happens, I am not one of those mild mannered, smiley types.
But I do have some knowledge about the Holy Bible and can help you with the
understanding that you will find hard to get on your own. However, you have
to put in the effort to take the free gift offered to every person by God.
P.S. However, if you become interested you may like the style of Kelly Jay or
one of the other Christians over mine.