1. Standard memberchaney3
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    23 Sep '15 03:19
    We are saved by grace. Not by works, lest a man should boast.

    I have been reading in various threads about (Rak) claiming that a Christian should be doing works for salvation.

    And KellyJay claiming that grace (through Jesus) is what brings salvation.

    According to these verses...it would seem that works will accomplish nothing.

    As a believer in Jesus, it would seem that a person will attempt to do good works, as a result of his/her 'new life' in Jesus. But, those works do NOT seem to be a requirement of salvation. Just a by-product of attempting to live through Jesus.

    It would seem that grace is the only way to salvation. The grace from the sacrifice that Jesus made. And......humans will always fall short it seems, regarding the sin issue, because only Jesus can be 'sin-free'.
  2. Standard memberKellyJay
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    23 Sep '15 03:24
    Originally posted by chaney3
    We are saved by grace. Not by works, lest a man should boast.

    I have been reading in various threads about (Rak) claiming that a Christian should be doing works for salvation.

    And KellyJay claiming that grace (through Jesus) is what brings salvation.

    According to these verses...it would seem that works will accomplish nothing.

    As a believer in J ...[text shortened]... will always fall short it seems, regarding the sin issue, because only Jesus can be 'sin-free'.
    I believe you grasp the truth here.
  3. Standard memberchaney3
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    23 Sep '15 03:32
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I believe you grasp the truth here.
    Why do you suppose then, that Rak is determined to advise on good works? What is it that I am missing?? Regarding the sin issue: No matter how hard we try, we will always sin. Aside from Jesus, no human can be sin-free. So, we will always fall short.

    A curious note: In the story of the woman who was going to be stoned, Jesus said that 'He who is without sin should cast the first stone". All the people dropped their stones and went away.....BUT, the next comment by Jesus has always puzzled me. He said to this woman......"Now GO.....and sin NO more". Why would He say that? Was He saying that it could be possible to 'sin no more'?
  4. Standard memberKellyJay
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    23 Sep '15 04:13
    Originally posted by chaney3
    Why do you suppose then, that Rak is determined to advise on good works? What is it that I am missing?? Regarding the sin issue: No matter how hard we try, we will always sin. Aside from Jesus, no human can be sin-free. So, we will always fall short.

    A curious note: In the story of the woman who was going to be stoned, Jesus said that 'He who is w ...[text shortened]... sin NO more". Why would He say that? Was He saying that it could be possible to 'sin no more'?
    He will have to answer that one, I spoke for him before and I felt I was wrong to do so.

    I believe we are all sinners, and there isn't anyone who isn't guilty of sin so we are all
    guilty sinners none of us are righteous on our own. Some may believe they are, so they
    can justify their stance on that. Good works are what we are supposed to be doing, no
    argument there, but what makes us right before God are not our efforts, but God's grace
    given to us through faith which is also a gift from God.

    I do believe we can be set free of sin as we walk in the Spirit of God, and if we fall, we
    have Jesus' grace. This isn't an license to sin, just an acknowledgement of what we are
    and the help we need.
  5. Standard memberlemon lime
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    23 Sep '15 04:33
    Originally posted by chaney3
    Why do you suppose then, that Rak is determined to advise on good works? What is it that I am missing?? Regarding the sin issue: No matter how hard we try, we will always sin. Aside from Jesus, no human can be sin-free. So, we will always fall short.

    A curious note: In the story of the woman who was going to be stoned, Jesus said that 'He who is w ...[text shortened]... sin NO more". Why would He say that? Was He saying that it could be possible to 'sin no more'?
    She knew what would have happened if he hadn't intervened, so when he said go and sin no more she knew exactly what he meant.
  6. Standard memberchaney3
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    23 Sep '15 04:38
    Originally posted by lemon lime
    She knew what would have happened if he hadn't intervened, so when he said go and sin no more she knew exactly what he meant.
    That is my question lemon lime. What did He mean? The implication by Jesus is that it is POSSIBLE to actually 'sin no more'. Is it possible for that woman, or any of us, to actually not sin??
  7. Standard memberlemon lime
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    23 Sep '15 05:021 edit
    Originally posted by chaney3
    That is my question lemon lime. What did He mean? The implication by Jesus is that it is POSSIBLE to actually 'sin no more'. Is it possible for that woman, or any of us, to actually not sin??
    The woman was about to be stoned for adultery, so if you were her then what do you suppose she thought he meant? Do you think it wasn't possible for her to stop committing adultery? I think after a close brush with death she probably gave it some serious thought. Or maybe not, maybe she poo pooed what he said and told him to mind his own business... but I seriously doubt it. What do you think?
  8. Standard memberchaney3
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    23 Sep '15 05:09
    Originally posted by lemon lime
    The woman was about to be stoned for adultery, so if you were her then what do you suppose she thought he meant? Do you think it wasn't possible for her to stop committing adultery? I think after a close brush with death she probably gave it some serious thought. But maybe not, maybe she poo pooed what he said and told him to mind his own business... but I seriously doubt it. What do you think?
    My question is not what she did after she was relieved from death from stoning. My question is what Jesus said to her. Jesus said 'Go and sin no more'. As if it were possible for her, or any of us, to actually 'sin no more'.

    It has been said that Jesus is the only person EVER to commit no sin. But.....the implication of this narrative could be that is it possible for another human being, other than Jesus.......to actually commit no sin. Jesus seemed to think that by telling her to commit no more sin......that she could actually succeed.
  9. Standard memberKellyJay
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    23 Sep '15 05:35
    Originally posted by chaney3
    My question is not what she did after she was relieved from death from stoning. My question is what Jesus said to her. Jesus said 'Go and sin no more'. As if it were possible for her, or any of us, to actually 'sin no more'.

    It has been said that Jesus is the only person EVER to commit no sin. But.....the implication of this narrative could be that is ...[text shortened]... seemed to think that by telling her to commit no more sin......that she could actually succeed.
    I do not believe it is possible without the Spirit of God within and there only as one lives
    their lives according to the Spirit of God leading, yet it is the way life should be lived.
  10. Standard memberchaney3
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    23 Sep '15 05:43
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I do not believe it is possible without the Spirit of God within and there only as one lives
    their lives according to the Spirit of God leading, yet it is the way life should be lived.
    Let's be clear. Do you think it is possible for a human to be sin free? Jesus told this woman to 'go and sin no more". Is it possible for a human to not sin??
  11. Standard memberlemon lime
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    23 Sep '15 05:55
    Originally posted by chaney3
    My question is not what she did after she was relieved from death from stoning. My question is what Jesus said to her. Jesus said 'Go and sin no more'. As if it were possible for her, or any of us, to actually 'sin no more'.

    It has been said that Jesus is the only person EVER to commit no sin. But.....the implication of this narrative could be that is ...[text shortened]... seemed to think that by telling her to commit no more sin......that she could actually succeed.
    You're going off on an unnecessary tangent here. All you need to do is ask yourself who was Yeshua speaking to, and what was he referring to. What he meant by "sin no more" has everything to do with what had just happened.
  12. Standard memberchaney3
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    23 Sep '15 06:11
    Originally posted by lemon lime
    You're going off on an unnecessary tangent here. All you need to do is ask yourself [b]who was Yeshua speaking to, and what was he referring to. What he meant by "sin no more" has everything to do with what had just happened.[/b]
    Cool. You made NO sense here. You have NO idea what God meant.
  13. Standard memberlemon lime
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    23 Sep '15 06:41
    Originally posted by chaney3
    Cool. You made NO sense here. You have NO idea what God meant.
    You're not seeking sensible answers, so it's no surprise to me if you haven't found any. "Seek and you will find" works no matter what you believe. You've only been looking for problems and inconsistences, and so that's all you are able see. So congratulations, you've passed Atheism 101.
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    23 Sep '15 06:51
    Originally posted by chaney3
    Let's be clear. Do you think it is possible for a human to be sin free? Jesus told this woman to 'go and sin no more". Is it possible for a human to not sin??
    No its not possible, there is a distinction though between involuntarily sins, that is sin that occurs due to human imperfection and deliberate sin, that is taking a course of action that you know to be wrong in a calculated manner. Thus the admonition of Jesus to sin no more by reason must have been relative.
  15. Standard memberchaney3
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    23 Sep '15 06:56
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    No its not possible, there is a distinction though between involuntarily sins, that is sin that occurs due to human imperfection and deliberate sin, that is taking a course of action that you know to be wrong in a calculated manner. Thus the admonition of Jesus to sin no more by reason must have been relative.
    You are guessing, or......robbie, you just don't know. This is an important question. Is it possible for humans to NOT sin? Why would Jesus tell this woman to 'Go, and sin NO more?'
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