Eternal punishment

Originally posted by jaywill
Now that we have pretty much proved that this second death is an eternal punishment, there is a finer point that I would like to elaborate upon.

But I need to discuss it with someone who really knows the Bible well. And it doesn't mean they have to agree.

But it is possible for a eternally saved person to be hurt [b]temporarily by the second dea ...[text shortened]... , I understand. If you would like I will lay the case out for your examination - Berean style.[/b]

I've never heard of such a doctrinal stance. I would be interested in knowing how you came to such a conclusion, but I warn you I am highly sleptical of this.

Originally posted by duecer
I've never heard of such a doctrinal stance. I would be interested in knowing how you came to such a conclusion, but I warn you I am highly sleptical of this.

I have to admit. I too am interested in the theory regarding how some Christians will be temporarily scalded in the lake of fire.

Originally posted by acb123
You still haven't explained "infinite"....and why is infinite a good thing. Also, according to your faith,Jesus wasn't God, he was the son of God.

Infinite is without measure, NO, HE IS GOD, we call Him "God's Son" because He was sent by God The Father to Earth.

Originally posted by duecer
I've never heard of such a doctrinal stance. I would be interested in knowing how you came to such a conclusion, but I warn you I am highly sleptical of this.

1.) First I would have to convince you that a Christian can be disciplined by Christ after the second coming of Christ

2.) Then I would try to show you that such discipline has a wide latitude of passibilities.

3.) Then I would try to show you that in the most extreme case the Christian could be hurt by the lake of fire.

4.) Then I would try to show you that such punishment could only be temporary.

5.) Then to be fair I would show you my own problems with the view which I have not solved yet. I also would handle objections to the view which I think I can solve.

This is a five point analysis of the problem.


I will open up another thread on "Dispensational Punishment of Christians"

Originally posted by daniel58
Infinite is without measure, NO, HE IS GOD, we call Him "God's Son" because He was sent by God The Father to Earth.

I think , Daniel, that many people have difficulty wrapping their heads around the idea that Jesus was fully human and fully divine at the same time. The wording used was for the sake of people who lived 2000 years ago, and were themselves encountering the Christ in person.

Originally posted by jaywill
Now that we have pretty much proved that this second death is an eternal punishment, there is a finer point that I would like to elaborate upon.

But I need to discuss it with someone who really knows the Bible well. And it doesn't mean they have to agree.

But it is possible for a eternally saved person to be hurt [b]temporarily by the second dea ...[text shortened]... , I understand. If you would like I will lay the case out for your examination - Berean style.[/b]

I do not believe God will mix His mercy and punishment, you will either
get one or the other to the nth degree.
Kelly

Originally posted by duecer
is he infinitely tall or infintely small?

no

Originally posted by duecer
I think , Daniel, that many people have difficulty wrapping their heads around the idea that Jesus was fully human and fully divine at the same time. The wording used was for the sake of people who lived 2000 years ago, and were themselves encountering the Christ in person.

I don't have trouble with the concept, I just don't accept it. The problem with any faith is that you cannot defend it. Somewhere, in any faith,followers believe that something or someone has a divine purpose. This has to be accepted rather than proved. My interest lies in why or how people get sucked in in the first place. Is it because they are indoctrinated from an early age by adults that they trust? Is it pressure from within a family of faith followers? When I see on here people attempting to explain their beliefs by quoting from a book written by men who themselves were trying to promote their religion, I remain unconvinced.

Originally posted by duecer
is he infinitely tall or infintely small?

INFINITELY Perfect.

Originally posted by acb123
I don't have trouble with the concept, I just don't accept it. The problem with any faith is that you cannot defend it. Somewhere, in any faith,followers believe that something or someone has a divine purpose. This has to be accepted rather than proved. My interest lies in why or how people get sucked in in the first place. Is it because they are indoctrinate ...[text shortened]... ook written by men who themselves were trying to promote their religion, I remain unconvinced.

So in other words you go purely by your own personal opinion, that you are right, and you will argue your opinion is right no matter what....what if you alone are wrong? chances of that happening are extremely high.

Have you seen how complex that book is? miilions of very intellegent people agree with its content so I would Like to see you do better, ...please do try, however be aware your opinion alone doesn't even convince other non-believers.

Many christian people believe in God before they even look at a bible, the bible is a tool to sharpen your faith....if you do not read it your comments and your spirit can become very blunt.

Originally posted by acb123
I don't have trouble with the concept, I just don't accept it. The problem with any faith is that you cannot defend it. Somewhere, in any faith,followers believe that something or someone has a divine purpose. This has to be accepted rather than proved. My interest lies in why or how people get sucked in in the first place. Is it because they are indoctrinate ...[text shortened]... ook written by men who themselves were trying to promote their religion, I remain unconvinced.

Anyone should be able to give reasons for their faith, if it can be
proven it isn't faith true.
Kelly

Originally posted by barstudd
So in other words you go purely by your own personal opinion, that you are right, and you will argue your opinion is right no matter what....what if you alone are wrong? chances of that happening are extremely high.

Have you seen how complex that book is? miilions of very intellegent people agree with its content so I would Like to see you do better, ... ...[text shortened]... harpen your faith....if you do not read it your comments and your spirit can become very blunt.

Of course it's my opinion. Who else's opinion would I be giving you? I am not alone in my assertions. Believe it or not, there are many people out there who do not credit your bible with divine status. They live perfectly good lives without ever referring to it. The complexity of it does not raise it above other books, it merely reflects the undoubted intellect of the people who wrote it....men who were promoting their christian religion. It's full of quotes accredited to Jesus and God. It's just a question of whether you believe it or not. Do you believe everything you read in the papers? It's full of common-sense advice on how to behave....it's also full of hate and discrimination. I do believe that there is a spiritual dimension to our lives, but I have never found the answers in self-serving organised religions. I shall continue to look elsewhere.

Originally posted by acb123
I don't have trouble with the concept, I just don't accept it. The problem with any faith is that you cannot defend it. Somewhere, in any faith,followers believe that something or someone has a divine purpose. This has to be accepted rather than proved. My interest lies in why or how people get sucked in in the first place. Is it because they are indoctrinate ...[text shortened]... ook written by men who themselves were trying to promote their religion, I remain unconvinced.

Have you ever heard someone say, "acting in good faith" what do you
suppose was being implied there?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Have you ever heard someone say, "acting in good faith" what do you
suppose was being implied there?
Kelly

Sorry. What's your point?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm assuming that what it does to one it does to all, you are on the
other hand changing that to mean something else without cause.
Kelly

YOU assume.
JAYWILL assumes.

Yet you think you have truth.

Assumptions, guesses, extrapolation, inferences are the enemy of truth.