Originally posted by robbie carrobie That is fine, but we already have these elements in place and yet, avarice, corruption and exploitation are still rampant...
There are all manner of problems that still exist in the world; there are problems that are being solved and there are new problems that emerge. It doesn't stop me from being optimistic though. I am not interested in superstitious notions of a supernatural being stepping in and destroying people etc. etc.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie ...you are quite wrong with regard to debauchery, it breaks up families and in the case of the Romans, an entire empire.
If people engaging in debauchery is an important world problem for you and you reckon they need to be destroyed or swept away, along with all the infrastructure they use, why don't you campaign for it to happen sooner rather than later? If you were successful, perhaps it would restore galveston75's confidence in humanity's ability to solve its problems.
Originally posted by FMF There are all manner of problems that still exist in the world; there are problems that are being solved and there are new problems that emerge. It doesn't stop me from being optimistic though. I am not interested in superstitious notions of a supernatural being stepping in and destroying people etc. etc.
I did not ask you what you were interested in, I asked you how you would solve these problems, you stated politically and advocated that as some kind of solution. It appears self evident that either your solution is no solution at all or the mechanism that you advocate is faulty, for avarice and corruption abound, despite the rule of law and in many instances they very mechanisms which you advocate have contributed to the problem at hand.
Originally posted by FMF If people engaging in debauchery is an important world problem for you and you reckon they need to be destroyed or swept away, along with all the infrastructure they use, why don't you campaign for it to happen sooner rather than later? If you were successful, perhaps it would restore galveston75's confidence in humanity's ability to solve its problems.
I am not discussing my personal opinions, please refrain from getting personal, the argument is not about me, its about the advocacy of a solution which is failing for it has not prevented the prevalence of either corruption, nor avarice and in many instances has contributed to those ills. I would not term that optimistic, I would term it delusional.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie I did not ask you what you were interested in, I asked you how you would solve these problems, you stated politically and advocated that as some kind of solution. It appears self evident that either your solution is no solution at all or the mechanism that you advocate is faulty, for avarice and corruption abound, despite the rule of law and in many instances they very mechanisms which you advocate have contributed to the problem at hand.
It's a process. Tackling problems always involves processes. If it's slow, then it's your prerogative to deem it to be "no solution at all". No one is going to accuse you of being an "optimist", after all. And yes, sometimes mechanisms to tackle problems contributed to the problems. It can be complicated. There can be setbacks. There can be unforeseen things that happen. It does not dent my optimism though. And as difficult as things may seem sometimes, I still find the notion that we should just wait for a supernatural intervention unpersuasive and, frankly, utterly peripheral in terms of the real world we live in.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie I am not discussing my personal opinions, please refrain from getting personal, the argument is not about me, its about the advocacy of a solution which is failing for it has not prevented the prevalence of either corruption, nor avarice and in many instances has contributed to those ills. I would not term that optimistic, I would term it delusional.
I support all efforts to confront and eradicate corruption. I know it's asking you for your personal opinion, but I will go ahead anyway: do you support all efforts to confront and eradicate corruption?
Originally posted by FMF It's a process. Tackling problems always involves processes. If it's slow, then it's your prerogative to deem it to be "no solution at all". No one is going to accuse you of being an "optimist", after all. And yes, sometimes mechanisms to tackle problems contributed to the problems. It can be complicated. There can be setbacks. There can be unforeseen things tha ...[text shortened]... tion unpersuasive and, frankly, utterly peripheral in terms of the real world we live in.
I find the notion that despite thousands of years of waiting for your solution to take place it has contributed in no small part to the deaths of millions of persons through avarice and exploitation and here you are advocating it as a solution, its simply not optimistic but appears to me to be delusional. what form of government haven't we tried? How many years will it take? a thousand, ten thousand, a million?
Originally posted by FMF I support all efforts to confront and eradicate corruption. I know it's asking you for your personal opinion, but I will go ahead anyway: do you support all efforts to confront and eradicate corruption?
I am absolutely a political in the sense that i will not participate in any kind of politicising of any issues, I support Gods Kingdom as the solution for mankind's problems.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie I am absolutely a political, I support Gods Kingdom as the solution for mankind's problems.
So you don't support all efforts to confront and eradicate corruption? That's odd because I thought you were putting it forward as one of the terrible problems that humanity faces.
Originally posted by FMF So you don't support all efforts to confront and eradicate corruption? That's odd because I thought you were putting it forward as one of the terrible problems that humanity faces.
we have among ourselves eradicated these problems through the application of Biblical principles, strange that they plague those who have not attempted to apply the principles, why do you think that is? I advocate the application of Biblical principles to solve greed and corruption.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie I find the notion that despite thousands of years of waiting for your solution to take place it has contributed in no small part to the deaths of millions of persons through avarice and exploitation and here you are advocating it as a solution, its simply not optimistic but appears to me to be delusional. what form of government haven't we tried? How many years will it take? a thousand, ten thousand, a million?
"What form of government haven't we tried?" Well, modern social democracy is relatively new; only about 100 years old in some places, and only a decade or two in many cases. There is no "thousands of years" when we are looking at the democratic systems and incorporation of human rights and growth of effective civil society that we have seen in the last 50 years. I am more impressed by its track record and promise than you are. I have seen the country I live in go from dictatorship to democracy in the last 20 years and there is so much to be optimistic about here.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie we have among ourselves eradicated these problems through the application of Biblical principles, strange that they plague those who have not attempted to apply the principles, why do you think that is? I advocate the application of Biblical principles to solve greed and corruption.
I am pleased for you if you are not a practitioner of avarice, corruption, exploitation and debauchery. Neither am I.
Originally posted by FMF Do you think galveston75 has made his case with respect to my alleged "agenda of hatred"?
Yep...but then that is just my opinion isn't it.
But the BIG point you are missing as usual is you started this whole silly debate with you telling everyone here that I specifically said something that I did in fact not do.
Do I not have a right to respond to a statement that I feel is wrong and not the truth?????????????????
So my advice is this is over. MOVE ON and go to the next discussion that I hope you will not highjack as you have an art of doing.
And if someone does not feel the need to answer you or does in fact answer you with their honest answer but one you don't like ((((( Let it go and move on to the next point ))))))
Originally posted by galveston75 But the BIG point you are missing as usual is you started this whole silly debate with you telling everyone here that I specifically said something that I did in fact not do.
I do not think it has been a "silly debate". I think most of it has been really quite interesting. robbie and I are talking about solutions to problems. We are not agreeing, but we are discussing it anyway.
31 Jan '13 14:40
eve and her std's
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