Spirituality
13 Aug 13
02 Sep 13
1 edit
Originally posted by PenguinMake himself known "properly", I'm not sure what you mean by that. I do
But you can only hear him calling if you already believe he exists. This is exactly the same as many other religions: those who already believe in the religion tend to hear confirming messages from their God. But they obviously are not because [b]their God is not real whereas your God clearly is.
This is why we need the real God to make himself known, properly!
--- Penguin[/b]
believe that when God says no one will have an excuse, that 'properly' has
been done already, otherwise people will have excuses.
Kelly
02 Sep 13
Originally posted by KellyJayWell, I did make a suggestion of what would do it for me. While there are multiple competing religions, each clearly run by people and each claiming the truth with no objective evidence, I see no good reason to believe any one above all the others. That is why I require extra-ordinary evidence. The purported need for 'free will' is no excuse,as I have explained.
Make himself known "properly", I'm not sure what you mean by that. I do
believe that when God says no one will have an excuse, that 'properly' has
been done already, otherwise people will have excuses.
Kelly
--- Penguin.
03 Sep 13
Originally posted by PenguinYou will get no more or less than the next guy, and the guy who finds
Well, I did make a suggestion of what would do it for me. While there are multiple competing religions, each clearly run by people and each claiming the truth with no objective evidence, I see no good reason to believe any one above all the others. That is why I require extra-ordinary evidence. The purported need for 'free will' is no excuse,as I have explained.
--- Penguin.
the truth with less will be standing there with you on judgment day.
Kelly
05 Sep 13
Originally posted by KellyJayI'll be standing with all the guys who never heard of Jesus or grew up in a non-christian community and saw Vishnu or Allah or any number of other gods in the world around them and who read and believed in other holy texts just as fervently as you do in your Bible and who heard their gods calling to them and who diligently followed their religious ways.
You will get no more or less than the next guy, and the guy who finds
the truth with less will be standing there with you on judgment day.
Kelly
Many of those people may have even been Christian, just not following Christ in quite the right way.
One of them could quite possibly be you.
This again is why god, if he exists, really needs to clear up all the confusion by revealing himself properly, by which I mean unambiguously.
I was hoping that Suzziane would continue this conversation since she is one of the most thoughtful of the faithful here, but it looks like she may have lost interest in the discussion. Shame.
--- Penguin.
05 Sep 13
Originally posted by PenguinYou are only trying to make up an excuse like a child does. "Johnny does it, why can't I?"
I'll be standing with all the guys who never heard of Jesus or grew up in a non-christian community and saw Vishnu or Allah or any number of other gods in the world around them and who read and believed in other holy texts just as fervently as you do in your Bible and who heard their gods calling to them and who diligently followed their religi ...[text shortened]... ul here, but it looks like she may have lost interest in the discussion. Shame.
--- Penguin.
The Instructor
05 Sep 13
2 edits
Originally posted by PenguinI get that there are other "ways" and other gods, I also understand among
I'll be standing with all the guys who never heard of Jesus or grew up in a non-christian community and saw Vishnu or Allah or any number of other gods in the world around them and who read and believed in other holy texts just as fervently as you do in your Bible and who heard their gods calling to them and who diligently followed their religi ...[text shortened]... ul here, but it looks like she may have lost interest in the discussion. Shame.
--- Penguin.
people we view each other as right or wrong in doing what it takes to get
with God. So bottom lining this, God will sort it all out!
The facts are not ours, but God's. I get that there are several choices
among men as far as God/gods go, that doesn't mean there isn't a right one
only that there are more than one. Scripture teaches that God calls us, we
are not going to come to God on our own our selfishness would keep us
from that. If we choose wrong it will be on us, this isn't one human group
verse another we are all going to be giving an account to God.
I agree with you about Suzziane, very thoughtful, and I find I agree with
her a great deal of the time.
Kelly
06 Sep 13
Originally posted by PenguinBut no, you won't be standing with them. Because they are believers also.
I'll be standing with all the guys who never heard of Jesus or grew up in a non-christian community and saw Vishnu or Allah or any number of other gods in the world around them and who read and believed in other holy texts just as fervently as you do in your Bible and who heard their gods calling to them and who diligently followed their religi ...[text shortened]... of those people may have even been Christian, just not following Christ in quite the right way.
I'll be taking my own (thoughtful) road here and say that these believers are not wrong. We Christians are told to have the faith of the mustard seed. Many of us do. But so do many Muslims, and Jews. The Hindu or any of the other non-Abrahamic religious, I cannot speak for, since I know little about them or what they believe. But we are all humans, and humans down through the ages have searched for God. Due to upbringing and where you are located on earth, your religion could literally be anything. But all who truly search for God will find Him. God does not care what language you speak, nor even what you call Him. It is what is written on your heart that counts, there are similar ideas taught among ALL world religions, and if you truly seek God, you will find Him. That is His promise to ALL men.
However, if you do NOT seek God, if you are satisfied that He does NOT exist, that you do NOT need Him, that you are complete in yourself and desire NOTHING from your Creator, then you, too, will have your reward. But it is a reward of YOUR own making. There are no 'separatists' in Heaven, regardless of what your 'religion' is. There are only those who are children of God, who seek their Heavenly Father. FAITH is what will set you free, and not what 'religion' you claim.
06 Sep 13
Originally posted by SuzianneI still believe the FAITH must be in CHRIST JESUS. I would not put my FAITH in Muhammad or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
But no, you won't be standing with them. Because they are believers also.
I'll be taking my own (thoughtful) road here and say that these believers are not wrong. We Christians are told to have the faith of the mustard seed. Many of us do. But so do many Muslims, and Jews. The Hindu or any of the other non-Abrahamic religious, I cannot speak for, ...[text shortened]... ir Heavenly Father. FAITH is what will set you free, and not what 'religion' you claim.
The Instructor
07 Sep 13
Originally posted by SuzianneJust for clarity's sake; you do understand that there is a difference between having no believe in god(s) and "Not seeking god/being satisfied he does not exist/not needing him/being complete in yourself (not even sure what that means...)/desiring nothing from your creator".
But no, you won't be standing with them. Because they are believers also.
I'll be taking my own (thoughtful) road here and say that these believers are not wrong. We Christians are told to have the faith of the mustard seed. Many of us do. But so do many Muslims, and Jews. The Hindu or any of the other non-Abrahamic religious, I cannot speak for, ...[text shortened]... ir Heavenly Father. FAITH is what will set you free, and not what 'religion' you claim.
Right?
07 Sep 13
1 edit
Originally posted by Great King RatI thought I was quite clear. Are you seeking God? No? Then my comments stand.
Just for clarity's sake; you do understand that there is a difference between having no believe in god(s) and "Not seeking god/being satisfied he does not exist/not needing him/being complete in yourself (not even sure what that means...)/desiring nothing from your creator".
Right?
07 Sep 13
You appear to understand that people who were brought up in different cultures may therefore have different religions.
Do you agree that people who don't believe in god often do so because god was not a part of their upbringing?
Or perhaps a better way of saying this: do you agree that people who DO believe in god often do so because it WAS part of their upbringing (not always ofcourse)?