Exclusive claim to God

Originally posted by knightmeister
I was not putting down other religions only drawing a distinction between them and Christianity. If you thought it was a put down then you must subtley agree with the points I made. I value many religions as they often have many more of the pieces to the puzzle than Atheism , but then again I want the fullest picture I can get , so I look to the crucia is Jesus himself within you. You may not agree , but do you understand my position better?

I wasn't saying that ALL your points have been flawed, but a number of them have been. Take for example the assertion you just made that if I thought you were putting down other religions, when in your mind you were only drawing a distinction, then I "must subtly agree with the points [you] made." Is it not possible that I see your "distinctions" as "put downs" since your aim seems to be to declare Christianity as superior? That I don't NECESSARILY agree with the points you made?

All I'm saying is that there are a number of indicators that pride seems to be influencing your views and behavior. It's a difficult thing to see in one's self, because it distorts truth. It won't hurt anything for you to take a hard look at it. If anything, it'll bring you closer to God.

I believe I understand your position about the Holy Spirit. I think you were just as clear the first time you explained it. It's quite plausible. Other religions appear to have their own term for this voice. Unfortunately man has no way of verifying when and how this voice came into being. So, the best one can do, is to cultivate, understand and follow this voice.

Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I wasn't saying that ALL your points have been flawed, but a number of them have been. Take for example the assertion you just made that if I thought you were putting down other religions, when in your mind you were only drawing a distinction, then I "must subtly agree with the points [you] made." Is it not possible that I see your "distinctions" as "put ...[text shortened]... l come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Unfortunately man has no way of verifying when and how this voice came into being

Yes he does it's called the New Testament. It's clear , historical and there for all to see.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I wasn't saying that ALL your points have been flawed, but a number of them have been. Take for example the assertion you just made that if I thought you were putting down other religions, when in your mind you were only drawing a distinction, then I "must subtly agree with the points [you] made." Is it not possible that I see your "distinctions" as "put ...[text shortened]... l come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

No , not "superior" in the way you interpret it , but rather more ACCURATE . If I say 2+2=4 not 5 then does that mean I am saying 4 is a superior number to 5?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I wasn't saying that ALL your points have been flawed, but a number of them have been. Take for example the assertion you just made that if I thought you were putting down other religions, when in your mind you were only drawing a distinction, then I "must subtly agree with the points [you] made." Is it not possible that I see your "distinctions" as "put ...[text shortened]... l come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

All I'm saying is that there are a number of indicators that pride seems to be influencing your views and behavior.

I have no pride! I am God incarnate remember ! I'm too busy preparing myself for the end of the world when I will judge you all.

amen brother.

Originally posted by knightmeister
" If you don't see this as pride, then more's the pity".THINK OF ONE

Actually it's not pride it's because I'm actually God in human form you see and one day when the world ends. I will judge you along with all humanity. I want to forgive you right now for anything bad you have done to your fellow man and thank you personally for all the good , cari ...[text shortened]... Follow me! Follow me and I will live in you and you will live in me! I will never die!

THINK OF ONE - If you thought I really believed what I was saying above , surely , with all your talk about pride being so bad, something like this would be the only consistent response?


"Knightmeister , you arrogant SOB !! Who the hell do you think you are! You have pride beyond imagination. You are talking as if you are actually God himself!! How can you forgive things people have done to other people as if they have done them to you personally. Bizarre! You will judge the world!! I think the cheese has just slid off your cracker mate ! You are so full of pride I wouldn't dream of listening to a word you say or value anything you might say about spirituality . I think you are seriously dodgy or worse than that down right dangerous! With pride like that , I want nothing to do with you , you must be so off beam it's ridiculous!"


BUT...do you notice that you keep quoting Jesus all the time??? It was Jesus who said these things , not me , and yet if I said them you'd think I was potty!!

In your book Jesus should be the most pride filled guy who ever lived (by a country mile) so why respect his words? Be consistent and dismiss him as nonsense. But STOP PATRONISING HIM!

Originally posted by knightmeister
THINK OF ONE - If you thought I really believed what I was saying above , surely , with all your talk about pride being so bad, something like this would be the only consistent response?


"Knightmeister , you arrogant SOB !! Who the hell do you think you are! You have pride beyond imagination. You are talking as if you are actually God himself!! ...[text shortened]... why respect his words? Be consistent and dismiss him as nonsense. But STOP PATRONISING HIM!

Actually, I see Jesus as having been quite humble. I see Jesus as understanding and following Truth.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Actually, I see Jesus as having been quite humble. I see Jesus as understanding and following Truth.

So what do you make of his outlandish claims to judge all of humanity and forgive all of our sins (even those who lived after him) and be the sole intercesor between the Father and man.?

The definition of arrogance/pride is that we build ourselves up into something we are not and become overblown in our perception of ourselves. How overblown does Jesus have to get before you (by your own standards ) label him as guilty of gross pride? Is sitting on a throne judging all humanity not overblown enough for you? If you thought I was getting proud what on earth do you make of him?

If I made these claims you would no doubt think me either arrogant and well above my station for what mere man could even dare claim these things for himself? I would have to be so completely up myself or borderline ill to say these things.

It follows logically that the only way you could see Jesus as "humble" is if you believed these claims and accepted he was the Son of the Living God , then he would not be overblown and full of pride but just saying it how it actually is. But if you did that you would be accepting the essence of Christian belief as disctinct from any other religion!

Any other position on Jesus would be inconsistent or ignorant. You are either trying to turn him into something he is not or you have no idea what he really said.

Originally posted by knightmeister
So what do you make of his outlandish claims to judge all of humanity and forgive all of our sins (even those who lived after him) and be the sole intercesor between the Father and man.?

The definition of arrogance/pride is that we build ourselves up into something we are not and become overblown in our perception of ourselves. How overblown does ...[text shortened]... re either trying to turn him into something he is not or you have no idea what he really said.

From what I've seen, you have little in common with Jesus. Jesus had a very simple message: Deny the self and follow Truth. You'd do well to begin to follow his message. The first step is to deny the self. The self keeps one from seeing Truth.

Obadiah 1:3
The pride of your heart has deceived you

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
From what I've seen, you have little in common with Jesus. Jesus had a very simple message: Deny the self and follow Truth. You'd do well to begin to follow his message. The first step is to deny the self. The self keeps one from seeing Truth.

Obadiah 1:3
The pride of your heart has deceived you

So your position is to sidestep and disengage with the issue I am raising?(yet again?) Do you not realise that all you are doing is incorporating Jesus into your own world view as if all he ever said was "deny the self" (by the way when he DIDN'T say follow the truth , he explicitly commanded us to follow HIM ) 🙄. He said a lot more than that as well.

His major core message was "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your mind" and yet you keep picking out the one that suits your theology to the narrow , selective exclusion of everything else (including his "arrogant " statements about his own divinity). In any case I do not see Jesus as a "teacher" or as coming to give a message, his main task was to die on the cross for us and redeem us from sin. This was a man who predicted his own ressurection. Do you really think he just came to tell us to "deny the self" , God could have got Moses to do that .

I have no problem with you arguing your position but don't kid yourself into thinking that Jesus is aligned with your position. If you want to follow truth then follow him with all that entails , that would make you a Christian . But of course you are going to say that he didn't quite mean it like that when he said "I am the truth the life and the way".This is "pick n mix" religion based on your personal values. This jesus candy won't mix though , I won't let you get away with it , he's too important.

You see I understand how uncomfortable and anxiety provoking it would be to understand the other aspects of Jesus (eg - "I have not come to bring peace , but a sword ..that will divide mother against daughter, father against son"😉 It would shake your amorphous spirituality. You might have to dismiss Jesus as "having too much pride" and being "too exclusive" or "definite" . And I would have no problem with you doing this as at least it would be logical and consistent (by your reasoning not mine). Just reject him and get it over with.

I know that I have loads of pride. I am aware that I need to come back again and again to Christ in a life long effort to shake it off. I don't see denying the self as a one time deal or a "first step" , it's a constant process. I know I have little in common with Jesus in many ways , but I know he loves me nonetheless. For me the biggest pride is thinking I don't need his love , or that I can just deny myself and get on with following God without his help. Do you really think that one can get to a state where you don't have pride.? If you do how are you going to get there all on your own? I have little doubt at all that I am more arrogant and full of pride than you , God's love makes me painfully aware of it,.. so I'm not going to play the "you've got more pride than I have " game. I've already been beaten by you , I guess I need God's love more than you do.

Originally posted by knightmeister
So your position is to sidestep and disengage with the issue I am raising?(yet again?) Do you not realise that all you are doing is incorporating Jesus into your own world view as if all he ever said was "deny the self" (by the way when he DIDN'T say follow the truth , he explicitly commanded us to follow HIM ) 🙄. He said a lot more than that as wel ...[text shortened]... en by you , I guess I need God's love more than you do.

Is God Truth? Is Jesus the manifestation of God?

Can one "love the Lord your God with all [one's] heart and all [one's] mind" without denying the self?

Is repentance required to redeem one from sin?

Does Jesus command one to deny one's self and follow him or begin "a life long effort to shake it off"? What stops one from actually following?

What is pride? From whence is it borne?

Originally posted by knightmeister
Yes he does it's called the New Testament. It's clear , historical and there for all to see.

I disagree. The NT was not written until 60 + years after Jesus' death - if, indeed, he did indeed die on a cross. Its historical veracity is impossible to judge properly. Some parts may be true, some may be exaggerations and some parts just plain lies. Impossible to tell.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
I disagree. The NT was not written until 60 + years after Jesus' death - if, indeed, he did indeed die on a cross. Its historical veracity is impossible to judge properly. Some parts may be true, some may be exaggerations and some parts just plain lies. Impossible to tell.

This is a truism. All historians know that history is always a matter of guesswork , especially ancient history. Historians work on probabilities and I think most historians would say it is very likely that a guy called Jesus was crucified for blasphemy (claiming to be God) in AD 33.

In any case my point was to THINKOF ONE who seems convinced about Jesus because he keeps quoting him as a revered spiritual guru. I have no issue with you , your position is logically consistent , you reject his claims outright , whereas THINKOF ONE wants to have his cake and eat it.