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@divegeester
As usual, working on several intense discussions and requiring rest, sleep, and to attend to being responsible to others things, sonship did not IMMEDIATELY respond, but I will.
As usual, after a break, sonship checks to see what else might have beem said worthy of a comment as just did now.
Notice Divegeester is inept on major points he disagrees with.
But is a connoisseur of picky, picky little minor points which are easier for him to handle.
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Are you suggesting Christians, after they die, are going to be equal with God?
That is what I thought Ghost asked if I believed. Is that what you believe? That Christians after they die will be equal with God?
Death is not a sure guarantee that the sanctification a Christian has neglected during his lifetime will somehow be accomplished once he dies.
Physical death is no garuantee that once resurrected you will have no problem before the Lord Jesus at the judgement seat of Christ.
The two classes of believers ALL come before the Lord's judgment bema to be designated their position in the millennial kingdom. Some are saved and rewarded. Some are saved and suffer loss.
No you never got told that by most teachers. In these last days the Holy Spirit wants us to consider what has been there in the New Testament with more seriousness.
"The work of each will become manifest; for the day will declare it, because it is revealed by fire, and the fire itself will prove each one's work, of what sort it is.
If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward;
If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:13-15)
Physical death does not guarantee that the work we have done in building His church will be rewarded. To whom much has been given much will be expected. The light one had will come into play. But clearly physical earth does not automatically make every saved Christian an overcoming one ready for the reward.
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He who is justified by faith is saved because he has believed.
That is not guarantee of reward in the kingdom.
Whether he is rewarded or to suffer discipline during the next age is decided at the judgment seat of Christ.
This is why mercy is extended to those who showed mercy. We all who have believed into Christ still need much mercy. All are in need of mercy which triujmphs over judgment.
"Blessed are the merciful for they shall be shown mercy." (Matt. 5:7)
If we realize that we as Christians are short of sanctification here or there or somewhere, then we should remember to be merciful to fellow believers. For as we judge we will BE judged. Sanctification can only be postponed or procrastinated upon. Sanctification cannot be stopped. And if in this age God could not get through to the degree that He outlined for each of us, after resurrection in the next age He will continue.
But His work on us after resurrection will have a different flavor. The dispensation is changed from the age of grace to the age of the kingdom. Physical death, physical resurrection, even physical rapture is not guaranteed completion of His sanctifying and transforming work on our souls.
This is a post and not a chapter.
Does it help?
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The work of which Paul speaks in First Corinthians chapter three is the work of allowing God to WORK Himself into us.
It is by Christ being WROUGHT into us the living house of God is built. The foundation is Christ. Each builds up it with the materials of the Triune God working Himself into man.
Gold signifies the divine nature of the Father.
Silver signifies the redemption of Christ the Son.
Precious stone signifies the transformation of the Holy Spirit.
The house of God is built with the Father's nature wrought into the believer.
The house of God is built with the redemptive work of Christ upon us.
The house is God is built with the transforming work of the Holy Spirit.
I leaned this from a man from China by the name of Witness Lee. And I am persuaded if you aren't that God is speaking to the church through the revelation that this unsuspecting servant of God has and serves the Christians with.
Wood, hay, stubble he taught are the much more plenteous things of the fallen man, the untransformed man. The man who neglects the work of the Triune God to work Himself INTO his being. In great abundance are the works of the fallen Adamic nature. We can choose to keep living as we lived before. But such living does not build His temple.
Such failure to be worked upon by the Trinity can cause one to die in immaturity. Then he may not be rewarded. Then he will certainly still be saved and have eternal life. But when will the sanctification take place - AUTOMATICALLY BECAUSE HE DIED?
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No my dear brothers and sisters in Jesus.
Death and resurrection does not guarantee sanctification and transformation and building into His house properly.
No. We were not told much of this in traditional Christianity. And some don't want to hear it. God is God. And the flow of life in the Body of Christ can flow from East to West. It does not only flow from the West to the East.
And if you do not like to receive this from Witness Lee then you can still receive it. I would advise you get a book by Robert Govett called "The Judgment Seat of Christ."
Do not press me about the details of being resurrected and still needing more sanctification. I don't know that much. But we know ENOUGH. Christians, you know in your heart that God is no dummy.
You may not have all the passages or all the verses. But you O Christian, know in your heart of hearts, There must be some consequences if I continue to refuse to turn myself over to the Lord Jesus as much as He prompts me to do so."
The old spiritual said "Everything is Gonna Be Alright When Jesus Comes." .
No, read the New Testament carefully. Everything may NOT be alright when Jesus comes, O Christian. Don't be mad with Witness Lee. He was here to help you. Paul told you. Some of us will be saved and rewarded. And some of us will be saved and suffer loss. (First Cor.3:13-15).
"I have been sloppy neglecting the Lord moving into the chambers of my soul. But death will take care of that. Death will automatically accomplish the needed sanctification."
That is not reliable. And today the Holy Spirit is graciously warning us that that is not reliable. Do we want to be saved yet so as through fire?
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@pb1022 saidI think most Christians would say that if they really stopped to digest what sonship is saying. When he says 'God-ized' or creates threads about Christ being copied and pasted into Christians, he means something entirely different from the rest of you.
No, I don’t agree with that at all.
Christians seem to collectively react in a defensive way when a JW posts here (perhaps with justification) but I'm perpetually surprised you lot allow sonship under your radar when the beliefs of Witness Lee (that he propagates here) are as every bit as divergent from mainstream Christianity.
Wake up.
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Sonized used by Witness Lee
From Basic Training b Witness Lee
To read more see https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=10840812CE
"THE PROCESS OF BEING “
SONIZED
”
Romans 8 mentions Christ and the Spirit; it also mentions “all things.” Along with Christ and the Spirit, we need “all things” to work together for us so that we may be “sonized.” We are not easily “sonized.” Being “sonized” is not the result of a mushrooming development. It is easy for our spirit to become a spirit of sonship. We do this by saying, “Lord Jesus, I repent. I am a sinner. Thank You, Lord, for dying on the cross for me. I take You as my Savior.” If you pray like this, the Spirit of sonship will come into you immediately. But it is a far more difficult matter to “sonize” our whole being.
In order to be “sonized,” we need “all things,” which include different kinds of brothers, both wild brothers and mild brothers. We need to listen to brothers who are eloquent and to brothers who speak in a staggering way. Those who speak haltingly, not eloquently, are the ones who expose us. Even in spiritual things we are still so much in ourselves, but those who speak in a staggering way expose where we are. Even such speakers are included in the all things mentioned in Romans 8:28. Without such halting speakers, how could we be “sonized”?
I have been in the process of being “sonized” for over fifty years, and I am still not completely “sonized.” The more we are “sonized,” the more sonship we have. My wife and so many brothers have helped to “sonize” me. Those who contact me daily have helped me the most in this matter. I am happy to be under the “sonizing” hands of so many people. Day after day I am under the “sonizing” hand of my wife and the brothers. No matter how kind they may be to me, they have unconsciously performed a “sonizing” work on me. I thank the Lord for all those who are helping to “sonize” me. I confess that I have needed everything and everyone for this process.
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@sonship saidWhy isn't scripture enough for you?
Sonized used by Witness Lee
From Basic Training b Witness Lee
To read more see https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=10840812CE
"THE PROCESS OF BEING “
SONIZED
”
Romans 8 mentions Christ and the Spirit; it also mentions “all things.” Along with Christ and the Spirit, we need “all things” to work together for us so that we may be “s ...[text shortened]... o are helping to “sonize” me. I confess that I have needed everything and everyone for this process.
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God-ized in fuller context used in the book "The Divine Dispensing" by Witness Lee.
To read more consult https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=17870F10C9D0
[my bolding]
THE DIVINE DISPENSING “DEIFYING” THE BELIEVERS
Over twenty years ago, when I first came to the United States, I told the brothers that even if our ancestor Adam had not fallen and we had not sinned, we would still need to be regenerated. The reason for this is that God wanted to have many sons who would have His life and who would be His expression. Although He created man perfect and flawless, He Himself had not come into man and had not been joined to man. If man were merely perfect but did not have God within, this would still be short of what God wants. When God created man, He created him as a vessel. However, he was but an empty vessel. God's purpose is to fill up this vessel with Himself. However, before God filled man up, man became defiled and corrupted. Hence, God came to redeem man and cleanse him. But this is only the means; it is not God's goal. God's ultimate desire is to enter into the created man to be his life so that he would gain Him and be joined and mingled with Him to live God's living. For this purpose He first came to be a man, to “man-ize” Himself. Then He enables us to partake of His life, thus to “God-ize” us. In this way He and we become one and share one living.
This concept is not found in Christianity. Although the Bible contains this truth, those in Christianity have not been able to see it. This can be compared to reading a book. If there are words that we do not understand, no matter how many times we read through it, we will not be able to understand its true meaning, and we will not be very concerned about its significance. The ultimate purpose of God is to work Himself into us in order that He may be our life and everything to us so that one day we can become Him. But this does not mean that we can become part of the Godhead and be the same as the unique God. We have to know that although we are born of God and have God's life to become God's children, His house, and His household, we do not have a share in His sovereignty or His person and cannot be worshipped as God.
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" The ultimate purpose of God is to work Himself into us in order that He may be our life and everything to us so that one day we can become Him." - Witness Lee
Did you think "born again" was simply to receive a ticket?
Did you think "begotten of God" was simply to obtain a ticket to a happy place - "Admit One" ?
He qualifies "become Him"
"The ultimate purpose of God is to work Himself into us in order that He may be our life and everything to us so that one day we can become Him. But this does not mean that we can become part of the Godhead and be the same as the unique God. We have to know that although we are born of God and have God's life to become God's children, His house, and His household, we do not have a share in His sovereignty or His person and cannot be worshipped as God."
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@sonship saidI think scripture, in its original form, is meaningless to both of us.
@Ghost-of-a-DukeWhy isn't scripture enough for you?
I put the same question to you, atheist.
Why isn't scripture enough for you?
I see it as irrelevant and you pimp it up with non-biblical concepts, like God-ized or 4 in 1 God.
@sonship saidWhy are you talking in the third person?
@divegeester
As usual, working on several intense discussions and requiring rest, sleep, and to attend to being responsible to others things, sonship did not IMMEDIATELY respond, but I will.
As usual, after a break, sonship checks to see what else might have beem said worthy of a comment as just did now.
Notice Divegeester is inept on major points he disagrees with.
But is a connoisseur of picky, picky little minor points which are easier for him to handle.
@sonship saidIrrespective of the litany of blatant scriptural errors/deviations from truth in your blurb, you just make Christianity sound like an over-complicated second rate pseudo-spiritual self-help course.
God-ized in fuller context used in the book "The Divine Dispensing" by Witness Lee.
To read more consult https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=17870F10C9D0
[my bolding]
THE DIVINE DISPENSING “DEIFYING” THE BELIEVERS
Over twenty years ago, when I first came to the United States, I told the brothers that even if our ancestor A ...[text shortened]... do not have a share in His sovereignty or His person and cannot be worshipped as God. [/b]
The gospel of Jesus Christ is so simple and so easy to understand even if not easy to have faith in. The Christian walk is also an outworking of the most parsimonious (psychological meaning) explanation of this gospel.
In the common vernacular “less is more” and “keep it simple stupid”.