Faith is full of power

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26 Dec 21

1 edit

@divegeester said
The cults always overcomplicate because then the higher wisdom is required from the upper hierarchy to unlock the secrets and paths, to decipher the numerology and symbolisms, to lead the plebeians to Christ. Just like the vicars, the priests, the fathers, the bishops etc.

Damn! This is the second time in a week that I agreed with you about something (I don't remember what the first time was about).

What is happening to me?!

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Moves: 27444

26 Dec 21

1 edit

@sonship
I would agree that faith can be full of power, sustaining power, even in dire circumstances.

(Even foolish optimism is often the better choice than "realistic" pessimism, for example.)

That doesn't need to be Christian faith, though, or even faith in the context of an Abrahamic religion.

And of course as time goes on, for some or many (on Earth at least) faith becomes less egocentric and worried about self-preservation and self-continuity, and more and more wishes the best for all sentient beings, transitory or not, arbitrary or not, preserved for eternity or not.

P.S. -- The Spider Crystals of Arcturus have no need for faith because they know -- THEY KNOW!!! 😉

divegeester

Fighting for men’s

right to have babies

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26 Dec 21

@kevin-eleven said
Damn! This is the second time in a week that I agreed with you about something (I don't remember what the first time was about).

What is happening to me?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxeO0LBR6GY

Even the planets align once in every few orbits.

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Moves: 27444

26 Dec 21

@divegeester said
Even the planets align once in every few orbits.

Sometimes the stars are right -- Sorry! Wrong mythos.

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26 Dec 21

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I think most Christians would say that if they really stopped to digest what sonship is saying. When he says 'God-ized' or creates threads about Christ being copied and pasted into Christians, he means something entirely different from the rest of you.

Christians seem to collectively react in a defensive way when a JW posts here (perhaps with justification) but I'm ...[text shortened]... e (that he propagates here) are as every bit as divergent from mainstream Christianity.

Wake up.

I think denying the deity of Jesus Christ and relegating Him to an angel is objectionable.

As for sonship, he posts so much and his posts are so long that it’s not easy to read them all, or even a significant majority of them.

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26 Dec 21

2 edits

@PB1022

As for sonship, he posts so much and his posts are so long that it’s not easy to read them all, or even a significant majority of them.

It was a good question.
And I left much unsaid to some important aspects of it.

Like . . . (latter)

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26 Dec 21

@pb1022 said
I think denying the deity of Jesus Christ and relegating Him to an angel is objectionable.

Do you personally object to that?

Thinking that something is objectionable is a rather passive stand to take.

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26 Dec 21

@kevin-eleven said
Do you personally object to that?

Thinking that something is objectionable is a rather passive stand to take.

Yes, I find it offensive.

But I respect other people’s right to believe what they want and I respect God’s ability to lead someone to a saving knowledge and belief in Jesus Christ in innumerable ways.

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26 Dec 21

@pb1022 said
Yes, I find it offensive.

But I respect other people’s right to believe what they want and I respect God’s ability to lead someone to a saving knowledge and belief in Jesus Christ in innumerable ways.

Why Jesus Christ specifically? It's a big Cosmos.

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26 Dec 21

@kevin-eleven said
Why Jesus Christ specifically? It's a big Cosmos.

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

(John 14:6)

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26 Dec 21

@sonship said
@PB1022

As for sonship, he posts so much and his posts are so long that it’s not easy to read them all, or even a significant majority of them.

It was a good question.
And I left much unsaid to some important aspects of it.

Like . . . (latter)

Ok, I read through your posts on this subject and was grateful to find this paragraph:

<<But this does not mean that we can become part of the Godhead and be the same as the unique God. We have to know that although we are born of God and have God's life to become God's children, His house, and His household, we do not have a share in His sovereignty or His person and cannot be worshipped as God.>>

I was under the impression from Ghost’s query that you believed Christians could become God after they pass in the sense of being equal with God.

I’m glad to see you don’t believe that.

Thanks for your posts. I’ll re-read them later and possibly offer thoughts.

Ghost of a Duke

The Ghost Chamber

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26 Dec 21

@pb1022 said
Ok, I read through your posts on this subject and was grateful to find this paragraph:

<<But this does not mean that we can become part of the Godhead and be the same as the unique God. We have to know that although we are born of God and have God's life to become God's children, His house, and His household, we do not have a share in His sovereignty or His person and canno ...[text shortened]... u don’t believe that.

Thanks for your posts. I’ll re-read them later and possibly offer thoughts.

Sonship believes this:

“Christ is of two natures, the human and the divine, and we are the same: we are
of the human nature, but covered with the divine. He is the God-man, and we are
the God-men. He is the ark made of wood covered with gold, and we are the
boards made of wood covered with gold. In number we are different, but in
nature we are exactly the same.” — The All-Inclusive Christ, p.103 (1989)

You cool with that? Do you not equate 'in nature we are exactly the same' with 'being equal to God'?

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26 Dec 21

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

Ghost of a Duke believes this.

There is no God . . . period.
Now, I don't agree with that.

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26 Dec 21

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Sonship believes this:

“Christ is of two natures, the human and the divine, and we are the same: we are
of the human nature, but covered with the divine. He is the God-man, and we are
the God-men. He is the ark made of wood covered with gold, and we are the
boards made of wood covered with gold. In number we are different, but in
nature we are exactly the same. ...[text shortened]... You cool with that? Do you not equate 'in nature we are exactly the same' with 'being equal to God'?

I think it’s up to sonship to reconcile the paragraph I quoted with the paragraph you quoted.

I’d also ask to what degree (and even if) the Resurrected and ascended Christ can be considered human. To my way of thinking, Jesus Christ was obviously fully human and fully God during His earthly ministry, but this verse from Hebrews seems to indicate His nature changed after His Resurrection and ascension into Heaven.

“Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.”

(Hebrews 2:4-6)

Those verses from Hebrews are speaking of Jesus *after* His Resurrection and ascension into Heaven. That’s clear from the verse that immediately proceeds those verses:

“Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:”

(Hebrews 2:3)

And just a couple of verses later, Hebrews says this about Jesus after His Resurrection and ascension into Heaven:

“But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.”

(Hebrews 1:8-9)

So no, I don’t think any Christian who dies is of the same nature as Jesus Christ.

But I’d be curious, in the paragraph you quoted, what “in number we are different” means. Does this only mean Jesus is singular in number and Christians who have passed are plural in number (because more than one Christian has passed?)

But I think sonship can speak better on this.

But I’d be curious how he reconciles those paragraphs (the one you quoted and the one I quoted) and whether he thinks Jesus’ nature during His earthly ministry (fully God and fully human) is the same as His nature now. And if sonship thinks it is, what Scriptural evidence exists to support that position.

Because Hebrews 2 says Jesus had been made “a little lower than the angels” to “taste death for every man,” it’s clear to me Jesus’ nature during His earthly ministry is not the same as His nature now (“…so much better than the angels.&rdquo😉

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26 Dec 21

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