-Removed-I think Christians are trained to keep their doubts hidden. There's even a 'doubting Thomas' character to put them off. Which is a shame. Doubt is the path to new understanding.
That's an interesting direction to take the analogy. Maybe the so-called 'supernatural' realm is really just a larger physical reality? Or a different physical dimension. Perhaps we have not yet developed much ability to interact with it. You'd think our pronouncements on that realm would be humbled and limited by that realization.
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Originally posted by SwissGambitI tend to think that "the so-called 'supernatural' realm" is a product ~ or maybe we could say a bi-product ~ of the human spirit's capacity for imagination, abstraction, creativity, groupism and emotionalism caused by our 'two-edged sword' ability to contemplate our own death. I think religionism, mysticism, theism ~ and other such things that are detached from proof or even the desire for proof ~ are just places that our each and every human spirit takes us, sometimes in droves. Consequently, I find theism completely understandable in this light.
That's an interesting direction to take the analogy. Maybe the so-called 'supernatural' realm is really just a larger physical reality?
Originally posted by FMFThis is the more likely possibility, to me. In that post, I was looking at things from a more theistic angle. If I were a theist, I would still want to know how supernatural entities were able to interact with this natural realm.
I tend to think that "the so-called 'supernatural' realm" is a product ~ or maybe we could say a bi-product ~ of the human spirit's capacity for imagination, abstraction, creativity, groupism and emotionalism caused by our 'two-edged sword' ability to contemplate our own death. I think religionism, mysticism, theism ~ and other such things that are detached from ...[text shortened]... es us, sometimes in droves. Consequently, I find theism completely understandable in this light.
-Removed-You see what you are doing there? I made a specific statement about a belief in Santa Claus, and you generalize it to 'an irrational belief', something I did not say.
Are you saying that am less insane than the person who believes in Santa Claus?
Yes.
If so on basis to you apply the label "insane" to the various levels of irrational beliefs?
Its hard to give a specific 'level' of insanity. If you look at the Wikipedia page I linked you will see there is a whole spectrum of the disorder.
But I think that believing in something that nobody else believes in, and that everybody else thinks is a fairy tale, and which is clearly irrational and counter to the evidence, should be sufficient to get you labelled insane.
You also said that my beliefs harm people in some way and then softened your position when conversing with Swissgambit by saying that all beliefs harm or benefit in some way.
No, I did not 'soften my position'. From the very start I made it clear that I was talking about all beliefs. I reiterated it several times well before Swissgambit got involved - and you chose to ignore me.
You strike me as being prejudiced against people with religious beliefs and in that you are irrational.
Well show me some evidence that I am prejudiced and that being so is irrational. As far as I can see you just desperately want to say that regardless of the facts, and will concoct evidence if necessary.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhat everyone is missing here is that it may have happened precisely because there is an intelligent designer.
and yet the alternative, believe in life from non life in a pre-biotic soup is not only mathematically improbable, it takes a much greater leap of faith than it does to believe in an intelligent designer.
Originally posted by SwissGambitDoubt is the enemy of faith.
I think Christians are trained to keep their doubts hidden. There's even a 'doubting Thomas' character to put them off. Which is a shame. Doubt is the path to new understanding.
That's an interesting direction to take the analogy. Maybe the so-called 'supernatural' realm is really just a larger physical reality? Or a different physical dimension. Perh ...[text shortened]... . You'd think our pronouncements on that realm would be humbled and limited by that realization.
Look at the way of nature. No animals or plants doubt. They just grow. It is an unending display of faith.
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Originally posted by SuzianneDoubt is a quintessentially human trait. Allowing ourselves to doubt can [1] make our well placed faith in things stronger, by subjecting it to genuine scrutiny, or [2] enable us to adjust or abandon misplaced faith if and when doubt calls its basis into question. Why would humans wish to emulate plants and animals?
Doubt is the enemy of faith.
Look at the way of nature. No animals or plants doubt. They just grow. It is an unending display of faith.
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Originally posted by FMFBut then doubt never ends. If doubt causes you to come up with a new belief, your doubt destroys that new belief just as easily. Doubt is the negative to faith's positive. Doubt also causes one to abandon well-placed faith. Your experience proves this. Fear is the mind-killer, but doubt is the faith-killer.
Doubt is a quintessentially human trait. Allowing ourselves to doubt can [1] make our well placed faith in things stronger, by subjecting it to genuine scrutiny, or [2] enable us to adjust or abandon misplaced faith if and when doubts calls its basis into question. Why would humans wish to emulate plants and animals?
Edit: Man would do well to emulate nature. It is our war on nature which is killing us.
Originally posted by SuzianneFaith without doubt is a cul-de-sac for the human spirit. My experience is that my doubt led me to a better place, spiritually, than I had allowed myself to settle for. Doubt led me out of the cul-de-sac.
But then doubt never ends. If doubt causes you to come up with a new belief, your doubt destroys that new belief just as easily. Doubt is the negative to faith's positive. Doubt also causes one to abandon well-placed faith. Your experience proves this. Fear is the mind-killer, but doubt is the faith-killer.
Edit: Man would do well to emulate nature. It is our war on nature which is killing us.
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Originally posted by SuzianneAny specific kind of nature? Female spiders often eat their male partners after mating, many predators catch their pray, hurt it so it can't escape and eat it as it is still alive and slowly dies a horribly painful death, and many male animals often fight until close to death just to decide who gets to mate with Suzianne. Any specific kind of nature we should try to emulate?
Man would do well to emulate nature. It is our war on nature which is killing us.
Originally posted by Suzianne"Man would do well to emulate nature"
Man would do well to emulate nature. It is our war on nature which is killing us.
...in spiritual terms? How? Why?
It is our war on nature which is killing us.
You ever watched a lion eat an antelope alive or a boss chimp beat his 'wife' half to death with her own baby's body as a weapon?
