1. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    25 Oct '06 09:09
    How exactly does one go about this?
  2. England
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    25 Oct '06 12:45
    his teachings or his life?
  3. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    25 Oct '06 13:01
    Originally posted by stoker
    his teachings or his life?
    Is there a choice between the two?
  4. England
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    25 Oct '06 13:40
    yes. his life as we know it mostly comes from paul who was a great at interpretation. but never knew the man on earth as far as we can understand the ones who lved with him on his time were good at talking so left others to write. his child hood is still debateable. but they do leave his teachings via others for us. hope this helps
  5. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    25 Oct '06 13:50
    Originally posted by stoker
    yes. his life as we know it mostly comes from paul who was a great at interpretation. but never knew the man on earth as far as we can understand the ones who lved with him on his time were good at talking so left others to write. his child hood is still debateable. but they do leave his teachings via others for us. hope this helps
    Well, then, I guess I would have to go by the teachings. So when he says nobody comes to the Father but through him, what does he mean?

    Do you mind telling me if you come from a particular tradition?
  6. England
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    25 Oct '06 14:021 edit
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Well, then, I guess I would have to go by the teachings. So when he says nobody comes to the Father but through him, what does he mean?

    Do you mind telling me if you come from a particular tradition?
    my early faith is C of E with a roman catholic influence. but later in my life still attend church but study thro books has influenced my knowledge and i must say this forum has been a good insperation. To reply to the question whoever he forgives god forgives not a religion but the indervidual
  7. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    25 Oct '06 14:061 edit
    Originally posted by stoker
    To reply to the question whoever he forgives god forgives not a religion but the indervidual
    How do you know this is what he meant?

    I'm not trying to give you a hard time, just want to know how you can be sure.
  8. England
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    25 Oct '06 14:12
    im very shure simply the words of the orriginal question. there are others like in revalations he is given the crown comes back to earth to send the angels to reap the harvest
  9. Standard memberthesonofsaul
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    25 Oct '06 15:02
    People have the capacity to be very sure of just about anything. I would consider it a survival trait. It wouldn't do a person very much good if he sat in camp all day thinking out all the various ways to get food and wondering about the implications of getting that food, whether it's poisonous, has all the right vitamins, etc. That person would eventually starve to death. A person needs to be absolutely sure that what he is doing is the right thing just to be able to do it. Take me for example--I wouldn't be typing this if I wasn't sure I was right. I may not be, but that is water under the bridge. In order for me to act, I have to be certain.

    The purpose of religion is fairly clear, at least on an individual basis, much like hunger. A person feels pained, guilty, lost. He needs comfort, and religion offers that comfort. He can't sit around waiting to be absolutely sure that the religion is right. He needs it now, the substance is offered, he sates his hunger.

    However, once the need is satisfied, the person is then in a position to reconsider. Maybe Cheetos are not the most nutritious thing to eat? They fill my stomach, but then I get terrible gas and my skin turns gray. Now that my hunger is sated, perhaps I should arrange for a more wholesome diet.

    One problem though--pride. Human beings seem to have a horrible time admitting that they are wrong. Once they have an answer, they stick to it like a toddler to a pacifier. Especially if it is the same answer that their parents, friends, and neighbors told them. What we need more than anything is the capacity to doubt--not only the ideas of others, but more importantly our own ideas as well. It is hard, especially if you've held on to those ideas for a long time, but there should be no fear. If your ideas are indeed sound, as you claim they are, a little scrutiny won't harm them. Be careful of being overly protective, however. Consider every option. Do not just pick the most unlikely senario and consider the job done.

    The final point is that we can never be sure of anything other than we are very limited, very faulted, and very confused. The less we feel confused, the more we are, as confusion brings with it delusion. We need answers for all the pressing questions, certainly, but those solutions need to be flexible, ever changing and growing. Christians, you need to be able to doubt those things you hold as absolutely true--namely, the infalibility of the Bible among other things. Athiests, you need to be ready to accept the existence of God, or at least perhaps a smaller step, the existence of a power much greater than you are. There is something in every belief, or active non-belief, that is too inflexible.

    So, in conclusion, one shouldn't ask why someone is sure about a belief, but rather why that belief is not allowed to grow and change as everything else in God's universe does.
  10. Felicific Forest
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    25 Oct '06 18:054 edits
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    How exactly does one go about this?
    Thomas à Kempis: "The Imitation of Christ", a spiritual classic and the second most published book in history, next to the Bible,


    Text of "The Imitation of Christ":

    http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/akempis/imitation/contents.htm


    Information about the author:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_a_Kempis


    Information about the book:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Imitation_of_Christ
  11. Felicific Forest
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    25 Oct '06 18:281 edit
    '

    Especially for Bosse:

    Review in Afrikaans of the book "Die Navolging van Christus""

    http://www.oulitnet.co.za/newbooks/luxvbm07_e.asp
  12. Felicific Forest
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    25 Oct '06 19:13
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Is there a choice between the two?
    No, the two are a unity.
  13. Standard memberKellyJay
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    25 Oct '06 19:15
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    How exactly does one go about this?
    Have you ever asked Him personally?
    Kelly
  14. Standard memberUna
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    25 Oct '06 20:31
    The scripture reference is from:
    "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me."
    (John 14:6)

    The door open to God the Father is only open through Jesus. Pretty short and to the point, you either believe in Jesus or you don't. If you don't then access to the Father is not granted.

    Una
  15. Hmmm . . .
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    25 Oct '06 21:09
    Originally posted by Una
    The scripture reference is from:
    "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me."
    (John 14:6)

    The door open to God the Father is only open through Jesus. Pretty short and to the point, you either believe in Jesus or you don't. If you don't then access to the Father is not granted.

    Una
    The Greek dia in this verse also can be translated as “by” or “by means of” or even “with.” I believe it points to divine action (charis, grace), not yours. If you could accomplish this by the act or a decision of believing, that would still be an act—a work, a work of the head like getting the right answer on an exam.

    NRS John 12:32 “And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people in company with myself.” (pros: to, toward, with, beside, in company with.) At that point, perhaps, people could choose not to go along...

    Although Origen’s notion of universal salvation was rejected as heretical; St. Gregory of Nyssa’s version was not—although it never became part of ecclesial dogma. The Orthodox position seems to be twofold—

    (a) One dare not limit God’s potential action be denying the possibility of universal salvation (or the possibility of a non-eternal “hell,” in which the soul is cleansed and healed in the fire of the Spirit—remember, in the east, salvation is “not hardly” treated as a juridical concept, but follows more closely the meaning of the Greek sozo, which has more of a meaning to cure or make well than to grant pardon);

    (b) One may not assert universal salvation as necessary, either.

    Orthodox theologian Olivier Clement: : “For the early church salvation is not at all reserved to the baptized ... The Word [logos] has never ceased and never will cease to be present to humanity in all cultures, all religions, and all irreligions. The incarnation and resurrection are not exclusive but inclusive of the manifold forms of his presence.” (The Roots of Christian Mysticism)

    And: “For the highest spirituality (and theology) of the first centuries, God will be ‘all in all.’ Certain fathers granted that God would turn away from those who turned away from him. This is what Western Scholasticism was to term poena damni, the penalty of damnation. Such a fundamentalist [sic] reading of the Gospels (which leads to speculation on the nature of the ‘worm’ and the ‘fire’ that will torment the damned) was denounced not only as external but as ‘absurd’ by the greatest representatives of early Christianity, for example by St Ambrose of Milan and John Cassian in the West, and in the East, quite apart from strict Origenism, by Gregory of Nyssa, John Climacus, Maximus the Confessor, and Isaac of Nineveh.

    “For this last author, whose development of the doctrine of hell is undoubtedly the most important contribution to this subject in the whole of Christian theology, it is unthinkable and contrary to the very spirit of the Christian revelation that God should abandon anyone.”

    “As a copious spring could not be stopped up with a handful of dust, so the Creator’s compassion cannot be conquered by the wickedness of creatures.” (Isaac of Nineveh; 7th century)
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