1. Standard memberamannion
    Andrew Mannion
    Melbourne, Australia
    Joined
    17 Feb '04
    Moves
    53702
    26 Nov '09 22:55
    Originally posted by galveston75
    But..just because we get a second chance with a resurrection does not mean we don't answer to God...We all reep what we sow. Life then is not promised to anyone.
    But what the resurrection will allow is for that person to be judged in a better light. Hitler was one who is condemened by the whole earth. I'm not making light of him by any means. Don't tak ...[text shortened]... ey've done. I'm not one to judge and Hitler will reap what he did, but that is God's call.
    No, judgement of Hitler and any other person, is our call - that is, we humans. We can't shirk the responsibility of this to some imaginary overlord. It's up to us to build the ethical, moral and legal rules and frameworks and then apply them.
  2. Standard membergalveston75
    Texasman
    San Antonio Texas
    Joined
    19 Jul '08
    Moves
    78677
    26 Nov '09 23:03
    Originally posted by amannion
    No, judgement of Hitler and any other person, is our call - that is, we humans. We can't shirk the responsibility of this to some imaginary overlord. It's up to us to build the ethical, moral and legal rules and frameworks and then apply them.
    But how have we done? Have things improved over the centuries? Is the world safer? Has man cured sickness, stopped wars? Do you fell good about our future with global warming? Don't you want better for your family?
  3. Standard memberamannion
    Andrew Mannion
    Melbourne, Australia
    Joined
    17 Feb '04
    Moves
    53702
    26 Nov '09 23:05
    Originally posted by galveston75
    What makes you feel that way? Could you be influanced by anything? Could your viewpoint be wrong?
    Of course I could be wrong. I'm not maniacal enough to believe that my view is absolutely right.
    What makes me feel that way? Well, when I was an altar boy ... only joking with you. I don't have any deep dark psychological secrets that lead me to reject the paternalistic notions of god in judaeo-christian religions.
    I just don't like your god very much. It's vindictive, murderous, full of hate, and trivial.
    And it's an unecessary invention - we don't need a god to understand our world or ourselves.
    Don't get me wrong, I respect your right to believe whatever you like. I was raised as a christian. I live in a christian society. My kids go to school where they have christian religious education classes. I'm not fussed with any of that. I'm happy to live on this world, and in this place. (And I don't mind the public holidays that I get either.)
    Actually, the public holiday's jibe gives me an idea. Here in Melbourne, we're pretty big on sport. We have a horse race that 'stops the nation' apparently - the Melbourne Cup - which runs on the first Tuesday every November. It's a public holiday. A public holiday for a horse race you say? Yes, did I say, we love sport in this city?
    Anyway, I'm not a fan of horse racing. The idea of watching short people with high pitched voices thrash beautiful beasts around an oval track doesn't really do it much for me (with all apologies to any christian chess-playing jockeys out there.) But Itake the holiday, like everyone else does.
    I'm not bothered by that. I respect other people's right to root for their particular horses. I just don't want to have anything to do with it myself. (I spent this recent Melbourne Cup day having a surf at a local beach - now that's what I call a good day.
    Anyway, think I lost the track there for a bit ...
  4. Standard memberamannion
    Andrew Mannion
    Melbourne, Australia
    Joined
    17 Feb '04
    Moves
    53702
    26 Nov '09 23:09
    Originally posted by galveston75
    But how have we done? Have things improved over the centuries? Is the world safer? Has man cured sickness, stopped wars? Do you fell good about our future with global warming? Don't you want better for your family?
    Would I rather be alive now or at some earlier time in our history? Give me now any day of the week.
    Have things improved over the centuries? Absolutely. Life expectancy, public health and sanitation, communication and transport, education, and on it goes ... Our world today is much better.
    Is the world safer? I would argue yes. Our perception of safety maybe has changed in the past few years, but the reality is now is a pretty good time to be alive.
    Do I feel good about our future? Well, I'm not dancing through the fields and throwing flowers about the place, but I'm optimistic. We'll get through any troubles that arise.
    Do I want better for my family? Definitely. That's what every parent wants I would guess. That's probably what drives our constant striving to improve.
  5. Standard membergalveston75
    Texasman
    San Antonio Texas
    Joined
    19 Jul '08
    Moves
    78677
    26 Nov '09 23:11
    Originally posted by amannion
    Of course I could be wrong. I'm not maniacal enough to believe that my view is absolutely right.
    What makes me feel that way? Well, when I was an altar boy ... only joking with you. I don't have any deep dark psychological secrets that lead me to reject the paternalistic notions of god in judaeo-christian religions.
    I just don't like your god very much. I ...[text shortened]... what I call a good day.
    Anyway, think I lost the track there for a bit ...
    I lose track alot....Lol. The race must be like our SuperBowl. And I know the surfing thing as I grew up on one many years ago...
  6. Standard memberamannion
    Andrew Mannion
    Melbourne, Australia
    Joined
    17 Feb '04
    Moves
    53702
    26 Nov '09 23:12
    Originally posted by galveston75
    I lose track alot....Lol. The race must be like our SuperBowl. And I know the surfing thing as I grew up on one many years ago...
    Yeah, I guess it would be similar, except the race goes for all of about 3 minutes.
  7. Standard membergalveston75
    Texasman
    San Antonio Texas
    Joined
    19 Jul '08
    Moves
    78677
    26 Nov '09 23:20
    Originally posted by amannion
    Yeah, I guess it would be similar, except the race goes for all of about 3 minutes.
    At least surfing last a little longer...
    I know our countries maybe are safer but I know there are more places now on the planet such as Mexico that aren't as safe as they were just a few decades ago. How do you feel about traveling with your family thru the Middle East?
    More humans including children are dying more today then ever in history. Diseases are getting harder to control. The life span of humans over all world wide is suffering. Right?
  8. Joined
    04 Feb '05
    Moves
    29132
    26 Nov '09 23:31
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Well if ones believes in the Bible and it says God is the "giver of life" and the one that can "take it away", then the life we all have is a gift... God's immediate plan after Adam sinned was to restore what Adam lost for us all. So in a nut shell, God has the right to do what he feels is needed to get us to that point again. If that means protecting hi ...[text shortened]... ng run we have to appreciate and respect his gift. Unfortunently most on the earth don't.
    so basically it is ok to kill in the name of god.

    that is what joshua thought. and the priests confirmed it.

    genocide, god approved.

    so tell me, what will stop nowadays for a leader to declare holy war on some nation, carry out a genocide, all the while claiming god sent a vision to his priests saying it is ok?
  9. Joined
    04 Feb '05
    Moves
    29132
    26 Nov '09 23:37
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Soooo, what are you saying?
    i am saying that i disproved your theory that the bible is 100% good stuff. you just dismissed someone for skipping some parts that are rubbish. it seemed to me that you claimed there is no rubbish in the bible. if that is really what you claimed, i just disproved your theory. with that "prove you are a virgin if your husband is a dick or die of an excess of rocks to your brain"

    on a side note it was really funny the way the man was supposed to pay 100 coins if he lied on the virginity accusation, but if the woman(mostly below 18 girl but who am i to judge) failed to provide proof(most likely a bloody bed cover? dunno) she was stoned to death. most fair wouldn't you agree? god, or should i say the male dominated society of that time, was wise.
  10. Standard membergalveston75
    Texasman
    San Antonio Texas
    Joined
    19 Jul '08
    Moves
    78677
    26 Nov '09 23:42
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    so basically it is ok to kill in the name of god.

    that is what joshua thought. and the priests confirmed it.

    genocide, god approved.

    so tell me, what will stop nowadays for a leader to declare holy war on some nation, carry out a genocide, all the while claiming god sent a vision to his priests saying it is ok?
    There is nothing in the Bible that says that would happen in the future. And if you look back at all the times this did happen in the past, God always gave warnings to those nations to repent or to leave his people alone.
  11. Standard membergalveston75
    Texasman
    San Antonio Texas
    Joined
    19 Jul '08
    Moves
    78677
    26 Nov '09 23:44
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    i am saying that i disproved your theory that the bible is 100% good stuff. you just dismissed someone for skipping some parts that are rubbish. it seemed to me that you claimed there is no rubbish in the bible. if that is really what you claimed, i just disproved your theory. with that "prove you are a virgin if your husband is a dick or die of an excess o ...[text shortened]... r wouldn't you agree? god, or should i say the male dominated society of that time, was wise.
    Do you really not understand what that law was for?
  12. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    26 Nov '09 23:50
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Do you really not understand what that law was for?
    i think the answer is rather self evident.
  13. Standard memberamannion
    Andrew Mannion
    Melbourne, Australia
    Joined
    17 Feb '04
    Moves
    53702
    27 Nov '09 00:17
    Originally posted by galveston75
    At least surfing last a little longer...
    I know our countries maybe are safer but I know there are more places now on the planet such as Mexico that aren't as safe as they were just a few decades ago. How do you feel about traveling with your family thru the Middle East?
    More humans including children are dying more today then ever in history. Diseas ...[text shortened]... are getting harder to control. The life span of humans over all world wide is suffering. Right?
    No, I disagree.
    It's very reminiscent of a debate going on at the moment in my country and perhaps in yours too, about the safety of children.
    When I was growing up, we kids would wander off to the local parks and creeks and muck around without any concern from our parents. Today it's hard to find parents that will let their kids do the sort of thing that was common. I admit to being a bit harder on my kids than my parents were on me.
    Why is this?
    There's a perception that it's a more dangerous world for them - with kidnappings, murders, sexual depravity, and so on.
    But the reality is that our society (I'm talking Australia here) is much safer today than it was 20, 50, 100 years ago. Why do we perceive it to be more dangerous? I'm not sure about this, but I think it's mixed up with media focus on abhorent events amongs other things.

    I think the same goes for our world as a whole.
    Sure, there are places I wouldn't want to go to, or take my family to - Somalia springs to mind, and Afghanistan - but on the whole, I'm probably more likely to get eaten by a shark while surfing than to be killed in a terrorist attack.

    I'm sure you're right about more humans dying now than ever before, but don't forget there are way more humans alive now than ever before.
    Some diseases are getting harder to control, but that's balanced by more and more cures for other diseases.
    Not sure about life spans - I'm sure you could check the figures somewhere.
    My gut tells me that people are probably living longer just about everywhere. But maybe that's just the raving lefty in me coming to the surface ...
  14. Standard membergalveston75
    Texasman
    San Antonio Texas
    Joined
    19 Jul '08
    Moves
    78677
    27 Nov '09 02:23
    Originally posted by amannion
    No, I disagree.
    It's very reminiscent of a debate going on at the moment in my country and perhaps in yours too, about the safety of children.
    When I was growing up, we kids would wander off to the local parks and creeks and muck around without any concern from our parents. Today it's hard to find parents that will let their kids do the sort of thing that ...[text shortened]... verywhere. But maybe that's just the raving lefty in me coming to the surface ...
    Well I think if you do just a little research on the internet about diseases in the world and how most are climbing in numbers you'd see that is is getting worse.
    But the point about this is according to Bible's prophicies is it would be a sign of the conclusion of a system that Jesus fortold. It's part of a composite sign of the times we live in.
    And this is one thing that if you were to research in the Bible, it would help you to see that there is some validaty to it, is the history it has with prophicies. Everyone that was fortold to come true before our time has come true. There are really very few left and they all point to a time in the very near future when they will happen.
  15. Standard memberamannion
    Andrew Mannion
    Melbourne, Australia
    Joined
    17 Feb '04
    Moves
    53702
    27 Nov '09 03:35
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Well I think if you do just a little research on the internet about diseases in the world and how most are climbing in numbers you'd see that is is getting worse.
    But the point about this is according to Bible's prophicies is it would be a sign of the conclusion of a system that Jesus fortold. It's part of a composite sign of the times we live in.
    An ...[text shortened]... lly very few left and they all point to a time in the very near future when they will happen.
    Surely you're not that gullible.
    Anyone can see connections and links in any series of events - it's what we humans do. And we're very good at it.

    I'd like to see any research that shows me that the world we live in today - especially those of us in Western industrial countries - is worse than the ones our grandparents lived in. I'd suggest you take a really good look around you at the amazing things we humans can do and have achieved.
    Yes, of course there are negatives. There are diseases. There are wars. There's poverty and starvationand terrorism.
    But you'll have to do better than 'the end of days are here' or whatever to convince me that this world is going to endin some biblically prophesied armageddon.
Back to Top

Cookies help us deliver our Services. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn More.I Agree