For ones interested in the Bible "only"...

Originally posted by twhitehead
Actually in terms of raw statistics you are more likely to be killed by a toaster than a shark.

Of course. I'm pretty unlikely to be killed by a shark at all, which is why I continue to surf even though i know there are sharks in the same waters. My point was that getting killed by a shark is extramely unlikely, but probably more likely than being killed by a terrorist.
Although of course, I have no stats to back this up.

Originally posted by galveston75
Do you believe the Bible is the word of God? Again only for ones interested in the Bible.

Yes.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
you still are ignoring my point. you still speak in general terms and dodging the issue. cannot debate you because you are not making any statements?

this might qualify as a statement: the mosaic laws were important that lives were lost because of it. from this i deduce that every such law had a purpose. is this correct? is this what you are saying? to ...[text shortened]... ese laws when jesus himself made most obsolete?

i answered your questions. answer mine.

Point blank. Fornication was to be punished by death. If the female newlywed was found to not be a virgin then she was to be put to death as was anyone who had committed fornication. If your not a virgin then you did have sex.
Here is your purpose: If God's people wanted to be protected by him and have safe and happy life's, they had to stay clean and keep from such things as fornication and adultry which is wrong despite it being ok in todays world.
The Messiah, Jesus, was promosed to come thru the line of David and God implimented these laws for two reasons. The first was to protect this linage line and keeping the nation of Isreal clean, the laws helped insure that. The second was to demonstrate to humans and the spirit creatures that man could in reality never live up to Gods perfect laws and that the Messiah was needed for us all to be a mediator and redeemer for mankind.
Pretty deep stuff but think about it as I hope you will. There is a much bigger picture here then the death of a girl who will no doubt be resurrected one day in the future.

Originally posted by galveston75
Do you really not understand what that law was for?

I think it's not a case of lack of understanding of that or any other law or writing in the Bible. At the risk of sounding like I am speaking for him, what I hear Zahlanzi alluding to is that if the Bible is the word of God then not only are we paying attention to only the words we wants to, we're discarding entire sentences and passages; and at who's behest? God's? Did God tell you or anyone else to suddenly start ignoring parts of Judaic law? Who put you or anyone else in charge of deciding what is fully God's word and what is ok to ignore??

The Bible is not and cannot be solely God's word. To declare as such completely ignores what I've just said as fully as it ignores far too many parts of this so-called inerrant collection of writings. It cannot be.

But the bottom line here is that if all a person is after is whether the Bible is completely the Word of God or not, then they've missed the point on the Bible, and they've missed what, if any, of it can actually be used to better their life. And, it doesn't matter whether one is religious, spiritual, or athiest in that respect.

Originally posted by Badwater
I think it's not a case of lack of understanding of that or any other law or writing in the Bible. At the risk of sounding like I am speaking for him, what I hear Zahlanzi alluding to is that if the Bible is the word of God then not only are we paying attention to only the words we wants to, we're discarding entire sentences and passages; and at who's behes ...[text shortened]... nd, it doesn't matter whether one is religious, spiritual, or athiest in that respect.

Well first you are wrong, the complete Bible is the word of God but you may pick and choose what you use out of it. That's your decision and just one persons opinion.
And it was Jesus himself that said his life fulfilled the laws because he never broke one of them whicjh was a fulfillment of prophecy, and the only laws we are to follow now he stated at Luke 10:27. But....that does not mean the principles of all those laws are to be ignored.

Originally posted by galveston75
Point blank. Fornication was to be punished by death. If the female newlywed was found to not be a virgin then she was to be put to death as was anyone who had committed fornication. If your not a virgin then you did have sex.
Here is your purpose: If God's people wanted to be protected by him and have safe and happy life's, they had to stay clean and ...[text shortened]... picture here then the death of a girl who will no doubt be resurrected one day in the future.

so the fact that the husband can falsely accuse an innocent girl does not phase you one bit?
how about the fact that the accused is supposed to provide proof of innocence rather than the accuser to provide proof of guilt?
how about the fact that the penalty of being found guilty was death in a gruesome manner but the act of falsely accusing someone of an act that carried such an insane penalty was punishable with only a fine?


the fact that jesus had to be married from the house of david bares little significance. what would it matter if david and his son married and had kids from all nations of the world, from cherokee indian girls to chinese girls? jesus would still trace his lineage back to david. not to mention it is stupid to think that the saviour of the world, who preached love and understanding to all would absolutely require to only have jewish ancestors.

you once again missed my point about fornication. i don't mind the fact that adulterers are being stoned to death. they are savages, i am not gonna cry about what savages do. what i mind is people saying god is the one who directed these laws, that are so barbaric, yet when Jesus came he preached love and peace. i do mind when people say this law(and there are others, i just found one) is just. i just proved again that it isn't. that it can be abused by even the most retarded of all people.

The second was to demonstrate to humans and the spirit creatures that man could in reality never live up to Gods perfect laws and that the Messiah was needed for us all to be a mediator and redeemer for mankind.
this is so wrong it pains me to argue it. and to read it. perfect laws? what did i just say until now? what perfect laws? the ones that preach: if you don't like what he did, kill him?
jesus was needed to be a mediator and a saviour because we couldn't live up to the bloodthirsty and barbaric laws set before? these laws were supposed to teach us that we can never live up to gods "perfect laws"? i should bloody hope not for i wouldn't want to whorship a god that demands a girl be stoned to death for failing to prove her innocence and the man who accuses her only gets a fine if she does manages to prove it(how?)

Pretty deep stuff but think about it as I hope you will. There is a much bigger picture here then the death of a girl who will no doubt be resurrected one day in the future.
deep stuff? hardly. by this argument the auschwitz camp rules are also deep.

the death of a girl who will no doubt be resurrected one day in the future.
dude is nothing sacred to you? a girl dies for being accused of fornication. the man who accuses her does not offer proof or witnesses or anything. he doesn't and can't name the man who she had fornicating acts with. the burden of proof lies solely on the little girl and her family. what did she died for? what was god's plan? someone probably lied and had a soul killed, brutally, and all that is important to you is that she will be resurrected one day? as twhite said once, why are you not commiting suicide right now since your death means nothing and you will be resurrected one day? by your argument the people of jericho were better off dead. they simply had to make way for a better, brighter future for the chosen people. innocent dying on death row because of faulty laws are also unimportant?

do you listen to yourself?

Originally posted by galveston75
Well first you are wrong, the complete Bible is the word of God but you may pick and choose what you use out of it. That's your decision and just one persons opinion.
And it was Jesus himself that said his life fulfilled the laws because he never broke one of them whicjh was a fulfillment of prophecy, and the only laws we are to follow now he stated at Luke 10:27. But....that does not mean the principles of all those laws are to be ignored.

when asked about the "eye for an eye" principle jesus mentioned a little concept called "turn the other cheek"

he stopped the morons from stoning that woman.

he "worked" on sabbath curing the paraplegic if i am not mistaken.

he told the morons that divorce is not fluffy. the jews had divorce up until then.

jesus never broke the laws? i didn't read the whole bible but the main difference between you and me is that i also think. you are afraid to think for fear god will send you to hell. which is pretty insulting towards him.

Originally posted by galveston75
Well first you are wrong, the complete Bible is the word of God but you may pick and choose what you use out of it. That's your decision and just one persons opinion.
And it was Jesus himself that said his life fulfilled the laws because he never broke one of them whicjh was a fulfillment of prophecy, and the only laws we are to follow now he stated at Luke 10:27. But....that does not mean the principles of all those laws are to be ignored.

this is a separate response regarding the bible being the word of god.

how do you know it is the word of god? who tells you that? is it the clergy? is it the ones that wrote the bible that tell you it is the word of god? don't you think that is a little convenient?

think for a second. a nomadic tribe wonders the desert because it is too weak to attack anyone. to preserve unity, the leaders tell the jews it is god's will so suck it up.
a nomadic tribe finally gets strong enough to move into canaan. how will they bolster morale? tell them that god will watch over them. the jews turn into rambos. but an army has to lose someday. and when they do, what can the leaders do to remove responsibility from them? "that guy sinned in front of god, god didn't have our backs and that's why we lost. kill him, repent and next time we will surely win"
the conquered nations have a nasty habit of rebelling against their conquerors. the jews themselves proved that to the romans. so what can we do to prevent this predicament? "I know" said Joshua, "let's kill every man woman and child, effectively wipe them off the face of the earth and blame it all on, again, god. It's god's will"

So what do you think is more likely? some jews put forth some laws to keep their women in check and justify the wars they were fighting(genocidal wars at that) or that god inspired the bible writers himself. The god that so much loved mankind that he sent his only son to die on the cross so that we all would be redeemed, in his "youth" chose a small tribe of jews from the desert and made them kill a whole bunch of other people because he was bored.

so do you still think that all of the bible is 100% inspired by god?

Originally posted by galveston75
Well first you are wrong, the complete Bible is the word of God but you may pick and choose what you use out of it. That's your decision and just one persons opinion.
And it was Jesus himself that said his life fulfilled the laws because he never broke one of them whicjh was a fulfillment of prophecy, and the only laws we are to follow now he stated at Luke 10:27. But....that does not mean the principles of all those laws are to be ignored.

Jesus "broke the law" in many instances in the NT. This has to be the most grossly ignorant statement I've read until the next one that someone says. Do you really want my examples so you can then backpedal or somehow claim that I am "wrong"? Pllllleeeeease.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
so the fact that the husband can falsely accuse an innocent girl does not phase you one bit?
how about the fact that the accused is supposed to provide proof of innocence rather than the accuser to provide proof of guilt?
how about the fact that the penalty of being found guilty was death in a gruesome manner but the act of falsely accusing someone of an ...[text shortened]... death row because of faulty laws are also unimportant?

do you listen to yourself?

Not my call. If he did do this falsely then he'll answer to God but you need to remember prayer by the Older Men to God and asking him for direction on the matter. If God see's the dishonesty by the husband then it will be brought out in their research of the facts.
And Jesus being born thru the line of David is an extremly important fact just because you don't understand it. It was a promise originally made to Abraham for his obediance to God for his willingness to sacrifice his own son. So you may think this is all stupid but it's your opinion and I don't really care.
And just because as you say, it is abused, which I agree it is, does not change the facts of the Bible and how God deals with mankind then and now.

Originally posted by Badwater
Jesus "broke the law" in many instances in the NT. This has to be the most grossly ignorant statement I've read until the next one that someone says. Do you really want my examples so you can then backpedal or somehow claim that I am "wrong"? Pllllleeeeease.

Go for it....

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
when asked about the "eye for an eye" principle jesus mentioned a little concept called "turn the other cheek"

he stopped the morons from stoning that woman.

he "worked" on sabbath curing the paraplegic if i am not mistaken.

he told the morons that divorce is not fluffy. the jews had divorce up until then.

jesus never broke the laws? i didn't r ...[text shortened]... fraid to think for fear god will send you to hell. which is pretty insulting towards him.

Yes he did say that why?

Originally posted by twhitehead
That is simply not true. You could be misinformed by the media, or you could be speculating because of your beliefs, but the raw statistics tell a very different story.

[b]But the point about this is according to Bible's prophicies is it would be a sign of the conclusion of a system that Jesus fortold. It's part of a composite sign of the times we live ...[text shortened]... u want something to happen and are prophesying it even when the evidence points the other way.

It reminds me of the Jack Van Impe guy! He is always saying that some event is a sign of the end! I can't stand T.V. evangelist.



Manny

Originally posted by menace71
It reminds me of the Jack Van Impe guy! He is always saying that some event is a sign of the end! I can't stand T.V. evangelist.



Manny

I hate the pretence too that they give. Could you see Jesus doing his ministry that way? I think not...

No! I think though this is what makes most think how stupid these Christians are.



Manny