1. Joined
    01 Sep '04
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    29935
    25 Apr '05 22:26
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    It's pretty amusing to have someone who blindly believes in a collection of ancient texts to the point of refusing to discuss the matter using logic, say someone else has their "mind set". I assume that's some kind of Christain humor.

    No, your "point" doesn't make any sense. You and I have no way to know if there is a creator God ...[text shortened]... . I'm not interested in such rot; present logical arguments to me or you are wasting your time.
    If I insulted you by saying you have your mind set, then I take it back. Your mind is not set (I guess). But if you think you're insulting me with the same remark, you'll have to try one of your other tactics because...my mind is set! I know what I believe, why I believe it, and I even allow myself an element of faith, recognizing that in the empirical sense (that spelling doesn't look right) noone can even prove that Napolean lived!

    For argument sake I suggest we always refer to the ultimate good supernatural being as 'God', and the opposite as 'the Devil'. That way my point about God not waiting to destroy (if He would even bother to create in the first place) a nation, unless He had first honestly and hopefully waited to judge them, will make sense to you. (Sorry I assumed this basic definition.)

    you said:

    The religious zealots on this site insist the human race is a bunch of degraded filth but that God created us so we could worship and praise him. Does that make any sense? Why would an all-powerful God care what an insignificant bunch of worms think (in their view, not mine)?
    If you heard me say anything like this, (I don't think you did.)I'd like to clarify my position.

    God created us perfect! Evolutionary doctrine suggests that, as a race, we have been gradually improving, but the Christian view is that Adam and Eve represent the very pinnacle of human potential. If we do only use some small percent of our brain, those two used the whole thing! We have accumulated a whole lot of knowledge about things that A&E never had imagined, but that is not the same thing as intellectual ability or wisdom.
    When they chose to do things their own way, without God, death and destruction became part of the system. Just as God had warned them. No, it was not a set up! One tree, clearly pointed out, easily distinguished from perhaps thousands or maybe millions of other, perfectly satisfying and wonderful fruit trees. Yes, there had to be one bad tree there, because without it man could never choose God.

    God wanted, and still wants, fellowship with His 'children', even after they became violent and murderous, because He cares for them. He loves them (us). He misses us! Think of your own family. Being made in His image, it really isn't much of a stretch for us to 'get it'. When my own teenagers do stupid things and ignore the advice of their old Dad, I don't stop loving them, but our fellowship suffers.

    The idea that we are like a bunch of worms in God's view is not correct. Jesus told the parable about the prodigal son because that is the better analogy. A significant point in that story is that God 'ran to him' when he saw his lost son coming home! If you have the correct teaching in mind, the 'logic' of the salvation story is very strong.

    I don't think I denied that God commanded children be killed in some instances. I simply focused on the story at hand.

    I'm out of time right now noone, but I'll get back to this again. I am trying to address each of your discernible points in the order you make them. Could you do the same for me? Don't get upset, but you seem to skip over the ones that are too tough.
  2. Standard memberMaustrauser
    Lord Chook
    Stringybark
    Joined
    16 Nov '03
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    26 Apr '05 02:23
    Originally posted by chinking58
    [snip] noone can even prove that Napolean lived!

    .
    Other than the fact that you can visit Napoleon's tomb? And no doubt actually exhume him if you could persuade the French Government.
    And that there are thousands of eye witness accounts of his life and times (not just a few in Jesus' case).
    That there are hundreds of thousands of dead soldiers buried killed in his campaigns.
    That there are portraits and statues crafted by people who actually had him sit for the commissions?

    What bizarre claim are you making?

    No wonder you have problems pushing your views when you make such outrageous claims.
  3. Joined
    01 Sep '04
    Moves
    29935
    26 Apr '05 02:53
    Originally posted by Maustrauser
    Other than the fact that you can visit Napoleon's tomb? And no doubt actually exhume him if you could persuade the French Government.
    And that there are thousands of eye witness accounts of his life and times (not just a few in Jesus' case).
    That there are hundreds of thousands of dead soldiers buried killed in his campaigns.
    That there are portrai ...[text shortened]... making?

    No wonder you have problems pushing your views when you make such outrageous claims.
    I'm just saying that it's ridiculous to keep saying "you can't 'prove' there's a God so I wont believe it". The demands some people make before they take a step of faith is silly! (that's right, I said silly!) We've seen how people can easily use the doubter's approach to dismiss any evidence given; even the great list you compiled. I suggest that men should step up to the plate and admit a few things. And stop denying the obvious facts of life.

    Of course Napoleon existed, and of course Jesus existed.

    (Good to hear from you Maus. Isn't this your thread?)
    By the way, I think I'm 'pushing' my views just fine.
  4. Standard memberno1marauder
    Naturally Right
    Somewhere Else
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    22 Jun '04
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    42677
    26 Apr '05 02:551 edit
    Originally posted by chinking58
    I'm just saying that it's ridiculous to keep saying "you can't 'prove' there's a God so I wont believe it". The demands some people make before they take a step of faith is silly! (that's right, I said silly!) We've seen how ...[text shortened]... read?)
    By the way, I think I'm 'pushing' my views just fine.
    It's hardly "silly" to ask for evidence when someone makes an extraordinary claim. Thousands of people have claimed that they have been taken up in alien spaceships and examined by little grey men. Do you believe them? If not, are you being "silly"?
  5. Standard memberfrogstomp
    Bruno's Ghost
    In a hot place
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    11 Sep '04
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    7707
    26 Apr '05 08:52
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    It's hardly "silly" to ask for evidence when someone makes an extraordinary claim. Thousands of people have claimed that they have been taken up in alien spaceships and examined by little grey men. Do you believe them? If not, are you being "silly"?
    Yup , we all know they really are little green men. and Napoleon's ghosts is their leader.
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