From Math to God

@KellyJay said
Am I sorry you are not being your usual sarcastic and unserious self? You okay? I’m as flawed as the next guy and get PO at ill treatment, and can also do the same, which is why I need a Saviour.

Mr. KellyJay,

You have always seemed sincere to me during our times here that have overlapped, and it's really only in this thread that I have noticed you seeming to lose your cool.

If I may pass this on from my poor late Dad (a devout Catholic), who tried to teach me this at home when I was about eight years old many decades ago: "Don't grasp at straws."

In the context of this thread, maybe that could be rephrased as "Don't try to confirm your faith by focusing on mathematical proofs, or even by success in evangelizing others."

If there is some kind of Cosmic Intelligence (on my side I think that is more likely than not), then It is unlikely to be significantly offended, tormented, or eradicated by whatever this or that person on Earth might believe or disbelieve. 😉

Please do hold on to whatever guiding and sustaining verses or other proofs you find helpful, even though they might be considered little flowers of Earth in a much grander context.

"A few flowers, and all the stars in the sky." -- Victor Hugo

@KellyJay said
You have to redefine God as someone who requires a beginning, rather than being eternal without one. You have to either submit what is currently defined by those who date the universe as having a beginning to be altered into something eternal. That’s not due to evidence but to redefining terms to fit what you want, rather than looking at the sources for how we come to know ...[text shortened]... here does that come from? Nothing can be given credit for that, just as nothing creates everything.

Agree. God has no beginning. He is.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke said
Did God come from nothing? Did God have a beginning?

No, an eternal universe has no beginning. (Hence it being eternal). - Really odd how someone can freely gift God with being eternal but can't get their head around the same for the universe itself.

Consider the idea of an eternal sequence of big bangs and big crunches, where matter has always existed in one form or another, time a human construct.

I can't believe that. I believe that God created the universe. I know that you don't and I am ok with that.

I don't believe that God was created. I believe he always was. I can't explain how, but I'm also ok with that.

I have had many personal things happen in my life that proved to 'me' there is a God.

@Arkturos said
Mr. KellyJay,

You have always seemed sincere to me during our times here that have overlapped, and it's really only in this thread that I have noticed you seeming to lose your cool.

If I may pass this on from my poor late Dad (a devout Catholic), who tried to teach me this at home when I was about eight years old many decades ago: "Don't grasp at straws."

In the con ...[text shortened]... of Earth in a much grander context.

"A few flowers, and all the stars in the sky." -- Victor Hugo

Well, thank you for your high opinion of me, but I promise, I'm as flawed as everyone else here. Maybe more so than some, too.

@KellyJay said
Well, thank you for your high opinion of me, but I promise, I'm as flawed as everyone else here. Maybe more so than some, too.

I hope this won't turn into some kind of competition.

"I'm so broken."

"I'm such a sinner."

😉

@Arkturos said
I hope this won't turn into some kind of competition.

"I'm so broken."

"I'm such a sinner."

😉

Well that is who Jesus came to save, it for sinners not the righteous did He come. Remember that when you pray!

@boonon said
I can't believe that. I believe that God created the universe. I know that you don't and I am ok with that.

I don't believe that God was created. I believe he always was. I can't explain how, but I'm also ok with that.

I have had many personal things happen in my life that proved to 'me' there is a God.

I respect your beliefs sir.

Hopefully we can agree that we each belief 'something' is eternal, but as finite beings ourselves can not fully comprehend the infinite.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke said
I respect your beliefs sir.

Hopefully we can agree that we each belief 'something' is eternal, but as finite beings ourselves can not fully comprehend the infinite.

thank you,

I agree.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke said
I respect your beliefs sir.

Hopefully we can agree that we each belief 'something' is eternal, but as finite beings ourselves can not fully comprehend the infinite.

It upsets me when people claim to know the truth. Even myself, with my unwavering belief in a creator 'God' could never prove it. Let alone claim to anyone else that I am right and they are wrong. I have never been ashamed to share my belief, but also never tried to convince someone I had the ultimate, for sure definite knowledge in the matter. I can only go by faith and what I have experienced myself. Have a great day.

@boonon said
It upsets me when people claim to know the truth. Even myself, with my unwavering belief in a creator 'God' could never prove it. Let alone claim to anyone else that I am right and they are wrong. I have never been ashamed to share my belief, but also never tried to convince someone I had the ultimate, for sure definite knowledge in the matter. I can only go by faith and what I have experienced myself. Have a great day.

Likewise I'm happy to say I don't have all the answers.

Season's greetings.

@Arkturos said
Wasn't he really just some self-important Jewish guy wandering and blabbing in a land without pillows?

"Ooh, I'm so humble. The humblest God you will ever meet. And by the way, you are living your life wrong."

The thing is, he was right.

@boonon said
It upsets me when people claim to know the truth. Even myself, with my unwavering belief in a creator 'God' could never prove it. Let alone claim to anyone else that I am right and they are wrong. I have never been ashamed to share my belief, but also never tried to convince someone I had the ultimate, for sure definite knowledge in the matter. I can only go by faith and what I have experienced myself. Have a great day.

Claiming to know the truth doesn't bother me one wit. Everyone knows their own truth. (This is where I lock horns with KJ. "There is only ONE truth!", he says.)

Everyone knows their own truth. They either live their truth or they don't. Those who don't even bother to live their own truth are the wishy-washy. Far too many of these on the planet. Just be real AT LEAST to yourself. ("To thine own self be true." )

The problem I have with people is when they claim THEIR truth is the ONLY truth. THIS is the height of arrogance. When they try to foist this ONE TRUTH on other people, who might be extremely offended by their truth, this is the beginning of sorrows. Far too many treat THEIR truth as the ONE truth. I say, if you do this, get ready for an unnecessary life of strife. Having respect for the truth of others is the path to living on this planet with others.

There's more to this, but it is past my bedtime.

@Suzianne said
Claiming to know the truth doesn't bother me one wit. Everyone knows their own truth. (This is where I lock horns with KJ. "There is only ONE truth!", he says.)

Everyone knows their own truth. They either live their truth or they don't. Those who don't even bother to live their own truth are the wishy-washy. Far too many of these on the planet. Just be real AT LEAS ...[text shortened]... s the path to living on this planet with others.

There's more to this, but it is past my bedtime.

I agree with what you are saying.

People who claim their truth is the only way bothers me also. It doesn't matter if it is religion, politics, how to raise your kids, a dog or feed goldfish.

@Suzianne said
Claiming to know the truth doesn't bother me one wit. Everyone knows their own truth. (This is where I lock horns with KJ. "There is only ONE truth!", he says.)

Everyone knows their own truth. They either live their truth or they don't. Those who don't even bother to live their own truth are the wishy-washy. Far too many of these on the planet. Just be real AT LEAS ...[text shortened]... s the path to living on this planet with others.

There's more to this, but it is past my bedtime.

Odd, if everyone has their own truth, and you have issues with someone else’s truth, why, if you really believe that?

Yet, if the truth isn’t something we possess but can only acknowledge if we stumble upon it, then none of us owns the truth; there would be no your truth or mine. You cannot be wrong if everyone is right. Your opinions are your own, right or wrong.

@Suzianne said
The thing is, he was right.

I dare not disagree!