Fruits of the Spirit

"That requires a divine longsuffering which is Jesus Christ.
That requires a peace which no atheist has, and a joy that no humanist or agnostic has, and frankly a faithfulness and goodness that is without limitation."

so are you saying that christians are happier and nicer than atheists?

do christians walk around being full of joy all the time? is this what you are saying, am i missing the point?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
"That requires a divine longsuffering which is Jesus Christ.
That requires a peace which no atheist has, and a joy that no humanist or agnostic has, and frankly a faithfulness and goodness that is without limitation."

so are you saying that christians are happier and nicer than atheists?

do christians walk around being full of joy all the time? is this what you are saying, am i missing the point?

In myself I am worst than you probably. Left to my natural strength I would not even measure up to Peter.

It is only Christ living in me through the Holy Spirit which means something to the kingdom of God.

As for happiness ? I think joy in the the Lord is something deeper than simple human happiness. A suffering one can be unhappy in their circumstances. But deeper down, deeper in them there is a "joy in the Lord". That is, not a joy in my surroundings, but in my surroundings a "joy in the Lord".

This enabled martyrs to go singing to their executions. They were not "happy" with what was going to happen to them. But deeper within them was a divine joy in the Lord - a much deeper root system grounded in the resurrected Christ.

I do not challenge you to a happy contest. I wish you all the happiness you can get in life. My belief is not shaken by atheists who are tickled to death with pleasure and have everything they need. My faith is not threatened by the round smiley face of the skeptic.

By all means - BE HAPPY. Be happier even than us believers in Jesus, if you can. It does not bother me or disturb my faith in the resurrected Christ.

am i missing the point?

My point I think is that because we are created in the image of God we have natural attributes that reflect on God.

You do not have to be a theist to have these attributes.

My second point was the in the natural realm (by the first birth) these attributes are somewhat selfish, limited, self centered and can easily flip to their extreme opposites if the self is not served.

When the second birth occurs Christ begins the process of permeating your soul and blending His version of these attributes. The are God centric rather than SELF centric. And they can be without limit. And tests happen to demonstrate to you:

THIS is no longer you alone. THIS is Jesus Christ living IN you.

And you'll know it.

Originally posted by jaywill
In myself I am worst than you probably. Left to my natural strength I would not even measure up to Peter.

It is only Christ living in me through the Holy Spirit which means something to the kingdom of God.

As for happiness ? I think joy in the the Lord is something deeper than simple human happiness. A suffering one can be unhappy in their circ ...[text shortened]... n Jesus, if you can. It does not bother me or disturb my faith in the resurrected Christ.

i would in no way challenge you to a happiness competition, especially today as ive spent most of it cleaning up sick projected from my sons mouth and failing to get my head around some pretty basic maths im studying. not a good day.

how can it be described as joy or happiness if it doesnt fit into the description of joy or happiness. it sounds like you are describing a feeling of security and faith rather than joy. i cant see how joy could be a subtle emotion simmering low in the background.
im not saying this to be rude or dismiss your emotions but all the christians i know seem to be the least content people i know. they seem to be conflicted by their natural emotions and what they think they should feel, lots of guilt, very judgemental, repressed, serious, stern...i never see an underlining of joy in these people. im not saying thats all christians but never the less they are still chritians, well actually most are catholics. i dont know if that makes a difference.

Originally posted by jaywill

am i missing the point?

My point I think is that because we are created in the image of God we have natural attributes that reflect on God.

You do not have to be a theist to have these attributes.

My second point was the in the natural realm (by the first birth) these attributes are somewhat selfish, limited, self centered and c ...[text shortened]... :

THIS is no longer you alone. THIS is Jesus Christ living IN you.

And you'll know it.

i may well but it sounds a bit like brain washing to me. if an alien landed and started imprinting itself on my brain i wouldnt be happy and the same applies to god, actually i would be happy because god had forced me to be happy with his godly prozac powers.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i would in no way challenge you to a happiness competition, especially today as ive spent most of it cleaning up sick projected from my sons mouth and failing to get my head around some pretty basic maths im studying. not a good day.

how can it be described as joy or happiness if it doesnt fit into the description of joy or happiness. it sounds like ...[text shortened]... y are still chritians, well actually most are catholics. i dont know if that makes a difference.

Here's a meeting with my meeting of my young Christian brothers and sisters rejoicing in the Lord. I am sure each has his or her difficult situation.

But "The joy of the Lord is my strength"

YouTube&feature=related

"We're so happy that the Lord has made us one!"

We're victorious in the Body of Christ.

YouTube&feature=related

More joy and rejoicing. I know each one of these young Christians is not without pressing and difficult situations. This is the joy of Christ from deep within coming out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=O2-37g1lrvs&feature=endscreen

More young Christian joy from New Zealand - high schoolers singing of the New Jerusalem.

YouTube&feature=related

Originally posted by jaywill
Here's a meeting with my meeting of my young Christian brothers and sisters rejoicing in the Lord. I am sure each has his or her difficult situation.

But [b]"The joy of the Lord is my strength"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2sp0lrUxw&feature=related[/b]

yes, singing can be fun. cant see how this show anything other than normal human fun. you dont have to be a christian to sing with a group of people and enjoy it.


i have lots of respect for people bringing young people together to have fun and camaraderie so i hope you dont find my comments disrespectful.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
yes, singing can be fun. cant see how this show anything other than normal human fun. you dont have to be a christian to sing with a group of people and enjoy it.


i have lots of respect for people bringing young people together to have fun and camaraderie so i hope you dont find my comments disrespectful.

I would add that they are joying over their experience of Christ.

They are young people with home family difficulties, school difficulties, personal problem difficulties. Do not let the rejoicing make you think they are people with no trials in their lives.

This rejoicing is because they have found that in the midst of their trials the resurrected and available Christ is still Victor and Lord. And of course they rejoice in that they are participating in God's plan for His redeemed people.

Originally posted by jaywill
I would add that they are joying over their [b]experience of Christ.

They are young people with home family difficulties, school difficulties, personal problem difficulties. Do not let the rejoicing make you think they are people with no trials in their lives.

This rejoicing is because they have found that in the midst of their trials the resurre ...[text shortened]... nd of course they rejoice in that they are participating in God's plan for His redeemed people.[/b]

most people who have hard lives find time to have fun regardless of their spirituality. comedy is a good example. many of us use it to joke and laugh at the things that cause us pain. or use it as escapism to forget about our ills.
i can accept that they are rejoicing because of their love for god. what im mearly pointing out that you said christians have a powerfull joy and calmness that they are not always aware of but its there and can help in hard times. i dont think the videos are an example of this, its just a bunch of kids having fun and forgetting about their home problems for a few hours. we've all done it, nothing here shows me they have anything a atheist doesnt have.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
"Do you know joy , self control , love , patience and peace yourself? If so what are they ? How do people get them? Where do they come from?"


We are basically talking about human emotions. which come from a mixture of nature and nurture. many aspects of behavior are passed through genetics, because of your dna you may be more likely to produce mor ...[text shortened]... in the balls hurts. this is all pretty obvious stuff, is this the kinda thing you were after.

Except when the fruit of the Spirit comes from the Lord, it doesn't rely on the
world around us, meaning even when going through very bad things which are
common to all men we don't lose these things. The best thing about being a
Christian is God, with Him no matter what hits our lives good or bad we can
be a peace and so on.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
There are some things we are to do and others God, God can and does take
care of His Church He doesn't need me for that. It will be fine even after I die
off.
Kelly

Didn't want to answer the question,eh?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Except when the fruit of the Spirit comes from the Lord, it doesn't rely on the
world around us, meaning even when going through very bad things which are
common to all men we don't lose these things. The best thing about being a
Christian is God, with Him no matter what hits our lives good or bad we can
be a peace and so on.
Kelly

so how does this manifest itself in life. person A and person B have a horrible life full of abuse and suffering. person A has god person B doesnt. what would an observer notice thats different between the two?